'97 bike so its carbs and no ECU) they were fitted and it made no difference!!
err...they all have an ECU/ICM Ignition Control Module and a Converter unit which is the most likely cause for a weak spark if everything else has been ruled out. Think of the converter unit as another coil It's the smaller of the two box's, the one on top. ICM are different on the later models as they have the HISS security system to contend with.
I would be checking and eliminating the converter unit and the plug that connects to it.
(:-})
I have a couple of spare sets of both ECU & Converter boxes if you need any.
Mac
Thanks for the offer. I have bought a converter and ECU and changed the units out - no change. But if you are near Rawtenstall Lancs I would appreciate another set if poss. Cybercarl has strongly suggested the converter as possible problem.
As you bought an extra set, have you had problems with these units - I've been told you never get CU problems - so I've been thinking its just my bad luck!
but I am not sure if I can simply put the multimeter straight across the signal and earth lines
You could test with the neg and positive probes on your multimeter but don't put a single probe across them or it it will short. You have the green neg/earth side and then each coil has it's positive live feed so I think you could do a test from here. There should be a min of 100v. Also check the terminals in the connector plug as these might be corroded. You should also check the coil ends too to eliminate a break in the wire of each one. Or you could run a temporary jumper lead, cable between the two connections. Not the leads that people carry in their car but a length of similar sized wire You should also check the wires that run from the ICM to the Converter unit.
Just make sire that when you run your test that you set the range on your multimeter to the right setting Ie use a higher voltage setting than what your looking for.
MacV2 wrote:
I have a couple of spare sets of both ECU & Converter boxes if you need any.
Mac
Thanks for the offer. I have bought a converter and ECU and changed the units out - no change. But if you are near Rawtenstall Lancs I would appreciate another set if poss. Cybercarl has strongly suggested the converter as possible problem.
As you bought an extra set, have you had problems with these units - I've been told you never get CU problems - so I've been thinking its just my bad luck!
Thanks again
Graham
Bit far I'm in Kent...
Didn't buy them came off a bike I broke up...
Making up since 2007, sometimes it's true...Honest...
but I am not sure if I can simply put the multimeter straight across the signal and earth lines
You could test with the neg and positive probes on your multimeter but don't put a single probe across them or it it will short. You have the green neg/earth side and then each coil has it's positive live feed so I think you could do a test from here. There should be a min of 100v. Also check the terminals in the connector plug as these might be corroded. You should also check the coil ends too to eliminate a break in the wire of each one. Or you could run a temporary jumper lead, cable between the two connections. Not the leads that people carry in their car but a length of similar sized wire You should also check the wires that run from the ICM to the Converter unit.
Just make sire that when you run your test that you set the range on your multimeter to the right setting Ie use a higher voltage setting than what your looking for.
(:-})
Carl Again thanks - great info. I was reticent to simply use the multimeter as Haynes mentions a peak voltage adaptor to be used with the multimeter, which I took to be a ballast resistor to protect the meter - but I'll do the test anyway (desperate now) because I am more convinced from your info, the problem is around the converter unit/connectors. Thanks also for the links to your entry on the engine / ignition systems. Brilliant work, really helpful - deserves a PhD!!
MacV2 wrote:
I have a couple of spare sets of both ECU & Converter boxes if you need any.
Mac
Thanks for the offer. I have bought a converter and ECU and changed the units out - no change. But if you are near Rawtenstall Lancs I would appreciate another set if poss. Cybercarl has strongly suggested the converter as possible problem.
As you bought an extra set, have you had problems with these units - I've been told you never get CU problems - so I've been thinking its just my bad luck!
Thanks again
Graham
Bit far I'm in Kent...
Didn't buy them came off a bike I broke up...
Mac
Sorry to hear about the 'off' - I had just finished the restoration on this bike, when white van man had brain fade and the bike goes down sliding under the van - just finished the 2nd repair, and now these problems! Thanks again for the offer and if tests show the problem is with the converter or ignition units, I'll get back in touch if I may.
but I am not sure if I can simply put the multimeter straight across the signal and earth lines
You could test with the neg and positive probes on your multimeter but don't put a single probe across them or it it will short. You have the green neg/earth side and then each coil has it's positive live feed so I think you could do a test from here. There should be a min of 100v. Also check the terminals in the connector plug as these might be corroded. You should also check the coil ends too to eliminate a break in the wire of each one. Or you could run a temporary jumper lead, cable between the two connections. Not the leads that people carry in their car but a length of similar sized wire You should also check the wires that run from the ICM to the Converter unit.
Just make sire that when you run your test that you set the range on your multimeter to the right setting Ie use a higher voltage setting than what your looking for.
(:-})
Carl Again thanks - great info. I was reticent to simply use the multimeter as Haynes mentions a peak voltage adaptor to be used with the multimeter, which I took to be a ballast resistor to protect the meter - but I'll do the test anyway (desperate now) because I am more convinced from your info, the problem is around the converter unit/connectors. Thanks also for the links to your entry on the engine / ignition systems. Brilliant work, really helpful - deserves a PhD!!
Carl - as an update I used the multimeter to check the output from the converter unit, but the results were rubbish. Haynes says you need the multimeter to have 10Mohm/DCv to do this test - I can only think that mine doesnt meet this spec. Going to take the units to a local garage and see if they con check out the units - wot a pig! - G
This thread is getting lost in a maze of red herrings. The reg rect will not affect the spark..it charges the battery!
If you have replaced one component with a working one and still no spark, it is not that component. Move on.
I know this is going to sound strange, but have you tried taking both plugs out, earthing them and seeing if both spark when the engine is turned over, with a fully charged battery and the battery charger left attached.
Also,disconnect the battery live, unplug the front coil leads, use a lead from the battery to energise the ignition coil/plug, when its out but earthed.Green to earth,stripey to batty positive, just stroke the live wire across the coil terminal, don't wire it in.
rollingthunderx2 wrote:This thread is getting lost in a maze of red herrings. The reg rect will not affect the spark..it charges the battery!
If you have replaced one component with a working one and still no spark, it is not that component. Move on.
I know this is going to sound strange, but have you tried taking both plugs out, earthing them and seeing if both spark when the engine is turned over, with a fully charged battery and the battery charger left attached.
Also,disconnect the battery live, unplug the front coil leads, use a lead from the battery to energise the ignition coil/plug, when its out but earthed.Green to earth,stripey to batty positive, just stroke the live wire across the coil terminal, don't wire it in.
Thanks for this - and I know sufficient to be able to discount some advice. Its simply that the fault has been intermittent, getting worse and finally its gone to a hard fault. Half my problem is I am not convinced that I have a multimeter that will give accurate voltage from the ignition trigger orthe Converter unit - which is what I am working on now. Also I have repeatedly earthed the plugs to see which cylinder is giving the problem, and the front is the worst. thanks again G
HI
All the tests suggest I have had a problem with not only the original converter unit but also the one bought off e bay.
My only chance of proving this one way or another is simply to slot my units in another bike (that runs!_) - This is after speaking to Hunts Manchester (very helpful) - Is there anyone willing to allow me to to slot my units in their bike - noting I live north of Manchester (Rawtenstall) - it would be worth a pint!
Garage had a multimeter then. It just goes to show that even new/used parts can be faulty and can not be ruled out. Good to hear your winning with getting this resolved.
Gr8whenitgoes wrote:HI
All the tests suggest I have had a problem with not only the original converter unit but also the one bought off e bay.
My only chance of proving this one way or another is simply to slot my units in another bike (that runs!_) - This is after speaking to Hunts Manchester (very helpful) - Is there anyone willing to allow me to to slot my units in their bike - noting I live north of Manchester (Rawtenstall) - it would be worth a pint!
Many thanks
Graham
Bon jour mon amie.
Im just down the road from you...Rochdale.
If your not sorted I could come and have a look.
I'll bring the bike as well.
cybercarl wrote:Garage had a multimeter then. It just goes to show that even new/used parts can be faulty and can not be ruled out. Good to hear your winning with getting this resolved.
(:-})
Carl
No I had the mutlimeter, but the garage had the experience which said (much as you said) stop trying to test with multimeter and get the units in a good bike to check them out, and after an appeal a guy has already offered to get to my place - this forum gets better and better!! I'll let you know how it goes G
Gr8whenitgoes wrote:HI
All the tests suggest I have had a problem with not only the original converter unit but also the one bought off e bay.
My only chance of proving this one way or another is simply to slot my units in another bike (that runs!_) - This is after speaking to Hunts Manchester (very helpful) - Is there anyone willing to allow me to to slot my units in their bike - noting I live north of Manchester (Rawtenstall) - it would be worth a pint!
Many thanks
Graham
Bon jour mon amie.
Im just down the road from you...Rochdale.
If your not sorted I could come and have a look.
I'll bring the bike as well.
Roger
Roger, Really good of you to offer, be grateful if you would phone my mobile to make arrangements/directions etc -- G
Last edited by Gr8whenitgoes on Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It's the smaller of the two box's, the one on top. ICM are different on the later models as they have the HISS security system to contend with.
