stopper vs manuals?

[sirch345]

Was on about this with cheekykev the other day and convinced him to fit manual.

People seem to think the oem tensioners vary the tension on the chain depending on load when this is not the case.... If you look at how they work they shouldnt back off at all under normal conditions as the tension rod is held by the spring on a ratchet mechanism.
The only benefit is they automatically set the tension... But once its set theyre locked by the ratchet.... It doesnt move in and out.
So whats the difference fitting manual tensioners apart from you have to set the tension by hand.
And they dont fail.

Benny, I'm not one of these people who think the standard Firestorm CCT's self adjust, I know for a fact they do self adjust, but of course if you've done your R&D work as I have, by all means, please prove me wrong
Also the standard Firestorm CCT's do not have a ratchet system built into them.

So the difference is the Stopper Mod allows the standard CCT's to work as Mr Honda intended, whereas the manual's are set at a compromised position/tension.

I've a feeling I may have asked the million dollar vtr question here lol

If I go the stopper route will it give me enough warning or whatever to get home from a decent distance away?
Or would I just end up sat at the side of the road with an intact but unusable engine

Callum, providing the Stopper Mod is carried out properly you could carry on riding your bike with a failed CCT for loads of miles. I wouldn't recommended it, but you would have no worry about not getting back home if/when a CCT failed with the Stopper Mod fitted.

Chris.

[callam_nffc]

cheers Chris that's the main issue I had with the stopper I was unsure if I would still end up stuck if things went wrong

at least now I would have peace of mind knowing its not going to leave me stranded lol

[sirch345]

Callam, if you or someone else who's not familiar with the procedure for carrying out the Stopper Mod make sure you follow this link:-
http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 31&t=19416

And if you fit manual CCT's follow this link for setting up the valve timing before you begin:-
http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 31&t=19416

Regardless of which option you go for, setting the valve timing is most important to do before removing front or rear CCT's.

Chris.

[callam_nffc]

cheers mate I'm going to study the links after work, a mate is coming round to have a look and he's a mechanic so should give me a hand

I want to hopefully get it done this weekend

[callam_nffc]

will I need new gaskets to do the mod or can I just use the originals? hopefully they won't get chewed up when removing the ccts

[Wicky]

Not essential as you can use some universal blue gasket in a tube. Remember if fitting manuals to use some threadlock on the tensioner bolt to stop oil leaks and importantly stop it having any chance of working loose and unwinding.

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stor ... yId_255217

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stor ... yId_255230

[callam_nffc]

cheers mate ill permanently borrow some from work for the weekend

[seb421]

Was on about this with cheekykev the other day and convinced him to fit manual.

People seem to think the oem tensioners vary the tension on the chain depending on load when this is not the case.... If you look at how they work they shouldnt back off at all under normal conditions as the tension rod is held by the spring on a ratchet mechanism.
The only benefit is they automatically set the tension... But once its set theyre locked by the ratchet.... It doesnt move in and out.
So whats the difference fitting manual tensioners apart from you have to set the tension by hand.
And they dont fail.

Benny, I'm not one of these people who think the standard Firestorm CCT's self adjust, I know for a fact they do self adjust, but of course if you've done your R&D work as I have, by all means, please prove me wrong
Also the standard Firestorm CCT's do not have a ratchet system built into them.

So the difference is the Stopper Mod allows the standard CCT's to work as Mr Honda intended, whereas the manual's are set at a compromised position/tension.

I've a feeling I may have asked the million dollar vtr question here lol

If I go the stopper route will it give me enough warning or whatever to get home from a decent distance away?
Or would I just end up sat at the side of the road with an intact but unusable engine

Callum, providing the Stopper Mod is carried out properly you could carry on riding your bike with a failed CCT for loads of miles. I wouldn't recommended it, but you would have no worry about not getting back home if/when a CCT failed with the Stopper Mod fitted.

Chris.

i've tried to compress a standard working CCT and it was just as firm as my APE unit under load in the vice,

they don't adjust, or it didn't in my findings...

if i can find one knocking about ill put it in the vice and put gradual tension on it and video it

i found it does not go back in once its wound out unless you self wind it back in

i just believe they was only meant to extend with chain wear and never to give a little just keep a fixed tension on

[sirch345]

i've tried to compress a standard working CCT and it was just as firm as my APE unit under load in the vice,

they don't adjust, or it didn't in my findings...

if i can find one knocking about ill put it in the vice and put gradual tension on it and video it

i found it does not go back in once its wound out unless you self wind it back in

i just believe they was only meant to extend with chain wear and never to give a little just keep a fixed tension on

Seb, what you're missing when you try to retract a CCT by hand is the vibes from the engine, that IMHO is what makes the difference,


Chris.

[seb421]

I get what your saying Chris but I don't see how it would work there is no shock absorbing thing in it from memory other than the end cap, I don't want to piss anyone off or anything like that I just don't see any shock / loading property built in

Wouldn't have thought the vibration would bother it just the snapping on and off the throttle as the cam chain gets a work out

Have we no true info direct from Honda on them?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

[benny hedges]

i've tried to compress a standard working CCT and it was just as firm as my APE unit under load in the vice,
they don't adjust, or it didn't in my findings...
if i can find one knocking about ill put it in the vice and put gradual tension on it and video it
i found it does not go back in once its wound out unless you self wind it back in
i just believe they was only meant to extend with chain wear and never to give a little just keep a fixed tension on

thank you seb - thats what i mean - they will extend outwards but should not normally retract back in - until the spring fails.
'ratchet' for want of a better word, they extend to exert a fixed tension on the chain guide and that's it.
as the chain wears or stretches they should extend further - they do not move in and out unless you take the cap off the end and wind them out - or unless the spring breaks.

yes i have taken them apart and thought pffft thats a stupid design. in the bin they went.

and to answer image's question - ive done over 20,000 miles of hard riding on mine and never had to re-adjust them - so the argument that you have to constantly mess about with manual tensioners is piffle.

there is no noticeable rattle or other untoward noise with manuals, no uneven tension on the chain, no noticeable backlash in the drive and no chance of them failing ;)
the camchain will be under the same amount of tension on the drive side as with honda ones (of whichever design or whichever coloured dot) - the slack is only taken up on the non-drive side, where the slack is!
how you do this is up to you - but whatever means you decide on, you have to be sure it wont fail.
you would be better off knocking a wooden dowel down the hole than using oem honda ones.

each to their own - ive made my choice and stand by it for my own reasons.

[callam_nffc]

hi guys Ive grabbed both the Honda and haynes manual and the pictures help so much with understanding things

Ive wrote a list of what I need ready for the weekend and im going to go ahead with the stopper mod,

just wondering if any of you have any tips for me?
Ie. using locktite or grease anywhere etc

is using 8mm all thread ok to use as the stopper?

and one last question, what does " turn the worm X turns and lock off. then remove the cct" actually mean? the "lock off" bit of course

thanks in advance and sorry for being a pain in the butt

[tony.mon]

The locking tool is described quite well in the Haynes manual, but tbh, that's about all it's good for.
The idea is that you lock the old tensioner so that you can measure how much it protrudes into the engine, then cut the manual stopper to just short of that measurement, meaning that the stopped cct cannot retract more then a mm or two past its normal set position.

[VTRDark]

Any 8mm bar will do, I have use the thread of bolts before. Best to cut it a tad longer after measuring and then grind or file down to get a snug fit. You will know when it's snug as when re-inserting the roll pin it will go from not lining up and sliding through to sliding through nicely.

The locking off bit is hard to explain but makes perfect sense when it comes to doing it. The worm drive bit is like a helter skelter so moves up and down as the key is turned and then the cast on the CCT has a cross (+) cut out section in it, so as the key is turned it can be locked into one of these cross sections. Sorry I'm probably not very good at explaining that.

Make sure that you tape the key in place so it does not slip out when removing the tensioner. A small pop rivet is good for tapping the roll pin out. And I just used an adjustable grips to squeeze the pin back in place. And the best tip of all, take the pin out over a workbench or something and don't drop it on the floor.

(:-})

[callam_nffc]

ah right so you wind the key X turns and tape it to lock it in order to keep winder/worm in X position? ah that makes sense now