Re: Project Varatrackerstorm or Firetrackerdero.
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:50 am
it could be worse 
Have you finished stripping the paint of that attic door yet
Chris.
VTR1000.ORG
The UK's Number One FireStorm Website
http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/
Project Varatrackerstorm or Firetrackerdero.
Page 30 of 46
Re: Project Varatrackerstorm or Firetrackerdero.
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:08 pm
it could be worse Have you finished stripping the paint of that attic door yet
Chris.
Re: Project Varatrackerstorm or Firetrackerdero.
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:30 pm
Pfff.. just back from the doctors Chris. Bad news I'm afraid.
After an hour sitting in the waiting room watching sick abusers & other degenerates roaming around aimlessly It's my turn to see her. In I go & explain my issue.
She said I was a lost cause & there was no tablet/medication that could cure Pikey Hoarder syndrome.
Yur doomed lad
So off home I go & blow me on arrival, the Parcel force truck driver is at my door with a parcel...
After a quick finger squiggle & a Merry Christmas hug the driver pushes himself off me, jumps into truck & hurriedly locks the van. Never seen anyone driving away & keeping eye contact for so long
In I go & place the parcel on the table & slowly unwrap
They are a set of "Italian" Weber 50dco/sp's. On closer inspection they look like new old stock.
They are the largest I can go carburetor size wise as the inlet manifold is 50mm diameter inside also.
These are fitted with 46mm chokes & should be good for 8300rpm before running into issues.
All the reading I've done about the Weber dcoe series carbs point out the fact that the choke size dictates were max power will be.
I also read that every application is different & tuning for top end power will compromise low end tractability & vice versa.
Now that I have 40, 45 & 50 dcoe's it should hopefully be possible to tune each one for what I want from the bike.
See, I told you I'd been a good lad
Right then, what else do I need
Re: Project Varatrackerstorm or Firetrackerdero.
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:50 pm
What is don't understand is why you are fitting carbs that restrict the rev limit?
Have I missed something?
Have I missed something?
Re: Project Varatrackerstorm or Firetrackerdero.
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:53 pm
i bloody love this thread 
now get away out into that mancave we need updates, those carbs are top class looking
now get away out into that mancave we need updates, those carbs are top class looking
Re: Project Varatrackerstorm or Firetrackerdero.
Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:21 am
Hi Tony, it's not me purposely choosing carbs that'll restrict the air flow, it's the price of the things that's restricting me
The bigger the carbs the bigger the price. I never dreamed I'd get my hands on a 50 dco, never mind a pair
Here's the chart I'm using as a guide. This is on the theory of one choke per cylinder "500cc"
Re: Project Varatrackerstorm or Firetrackerdero.
Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:43 am
Yes, I saw the chart, it looks like you'll run out of carb before you run out of revs!
I suppose what I was leading up to was why you chose the TC Weber rather than Firestorm carbs, or something similar.
I had an idea a while back to try to get Ducati 888 fi on to a Storm engine, they look to be big enough throat size wise.
You would need crank position and cam position sensors fitted, but not impossible.
But then, simply using the Duc engine or the whole bike would probably be less work.
I suppose what I was leading up to was why you chose the TC Weber rather than Firestorm carbs, or something similar.
I had an idea a while back to try to get Ducati 888 fi on to a Storm engine, they look to be big enough throat size wise.
You would need crank position and cam position sensors fitted, but not impossible.
But then, simply using the Duc engine or the whole bike would probably be less work.
Re: Project Varatrackerstorm or Firetrackerdero.
Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:28 pm
The whole idea was to get the fuel tank as low as possible & at the time I had a set of 40 dcoe's to hand. So I decided to run with them & it's just grown from there really, I don't even know if it'll run with them.tony.mon wrote: ↑Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:43 am Yes, I saw the chart, it looks like you'll run out of carb before you run out of revs!
I suppose what I was leading up to was why you chose the TC Weber rather than Firestorm carbs, or something similar.
I had an idea a while back to try to get Ducati 888 fi on to a Storm engine, they look to be big enough throat size wise.
You would need crank position and cam position sensors fitted, but not impossible.
But then, simply using the Duc engine or the whole bike would probably be less work.
My conclusion after reading forum after forum & buying many Weber tuning books is that it should work, but how well is another thing.
Do Weber 48mm chokes flow the same as 48mm Vtr carbs? I dunno
I know they're different beasts but when the butterfly's are wide open at full chat do they flow the same amount of air as each other? If so, then going by the chart they look like they're both too small
The Varadero carbs are 42mm & when I ran with them they topped out at 6000rph iirc they just ran out of puff. It still went to the red line but just lost its urgency. So with the 50 dcoe running 46mm chokes & jetted correctly it should have a similar result as the Varadero, just a little higher in the rev range.
More food for thought is that the slick looking FCR carbs that I've seen fitted to VTR's were only 42mm. I've never read a thread about anyone that fitted them or how well they ran, but it'd be an interesting read.
Also, I have even been thinking about running a pair of Crf 450 fcr's but they're only 42mm too.
Or maybe a Vtr carbed engine running a fake tank similar to a Goldwing effort
Help, I'm cracking up
Re: Project Varatrackerstorm or Firetrackerdero.
Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:51 pm
Another idea I had was to use late Varadero heads (Sensor for fuel injection) then maybe sp1 throttle bodies running a Varadero loom with a power commander to remaptony.mon wrote: ↑Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:43 am I had an idea a while back to try to get Ducati 888 fi on to a Storm engine, they look to be big enough throat size wise.
You would need crank position and cam position sensors fitted, but not impossible.
But then, simply using the Duc engine or the whole bike would probably be less work.
Re: Project Varatrackerstorm or Firetrackerdero.
Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:03 pm
Don't know if sp1/2 use crank position sensors as well.
The wiring diagram should reveal all.
If so, the 2 set is better.
Re the late Vara heads, it should be straightforward to just fit the sensors into your current heads, if you have the measurement of exactly where they are positioned.
The wiring diagram should reveal all.
If so, the 2 set is better.
Re the late Vara heads, it should be straightforward to just fit the sensors into your current heads, if you have the measurement of exactly where they are positioned.
Re: Project Varatrackerstorm or Firetrackerdero.
Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:11 pm
maybe not much help but a while back i was chatting to an Auussie who has a lightly tuned vtr, he went to to FCR42 carbs from the standard 48s in the hope of maybe finding something, from memory once jetted and set up it ran crisper and sharper through the rev range but he lost about 3 bhp right at the top on a dyno. but did say the gains in sharpness across the range was worth the pay off.
Re: Project Varatrackerstorm or Firetrackerdero.
Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:30 pm
Thanks for that Fab, best info yet on Fcr'sfabiostar wrote: ↑Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:11 pm maybe not much help but a while back i was chatting to an Auussie who has a lightly tuned vtr, he went to to FCR42 carbs from the standard 48s in the hope of maybe finding something, from memory once jetted and set up it ran crisper and sharper through the rev range but he lost about 3 bhp right at the top on a dyno. but did say the gains in sharpness across the range was worth the pay off.
Re: Project Varatrackerstorm or Firetrackerdero.
Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:48 pm
Yeah, that was my understanding. Flatslides are easier to setup than CV carbs and that was the benefit rather than performance.Varastorm wrote: ↑Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:30 pmThanks for that Fab, best info yet on Fcr'sfabiostar wrote: ↑Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:11 pm maybe not much help but a while back i was chatting to an Auussie who has a lightly tuned vtr, he went to to FCR42 carbs from the standard 48s in the hope of maybe finding something, from memory once jetted and set up it ran crisper and sharper through the rev range but he lost about 3 bhp right at the top on a dyno. but did say the gains in sharpness across the range was worth the pay off.
It would be interesting to know the size of the Mori kit carbs; were they 48mm too or larger. The info I have on ram air setup showed it maintained above atmospheric pressure all the way through the revs. So whatever size the Mori carbs were they couldn't flow all the air available. The point being, maybe your 50s will be OK.
Re: Project Varatrackerstorm or Firetrackerdero.
Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:02 pm
i always thought the mori units were 48s aswell ?.. iv seen results that said the ramair system held +1 atmosphere at 110 mph.
i would like to see a set of the mori carbs on a bench beside a set of storm carbs to be nosey just
i would like to see a set of the mori carbs on a bench beside a set of storm carbs to be nosey just
Re: Project Varatrackerstorm or Firetrackerdero.
Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:19 pm
What an amazing findVarastorm wrote: ↑Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:30 pmPfff.. just back from the doctors Chris. Bad news I'm afraid.
After an hour sitting in the waiting room watching sick abusers & other degenerates roaming around aimlessly It's my turn to see her. In I go & explain my issue.
She said I was a lost cause & there was no tablet/medication that could cure Pikey Hoarder syndrome.
Yur doomed lad
So off home I go & blow me on arrival, the Parcel force truck driver is at my door with a parcel...
After a quick finger squiggle & a Merry Christmas hug the driver pushes himself off me, jumps into truck & hurriedly locks the van. Never seen anyone driving away & keeping eye contact for so long
In I go & place the parcel on the table & slowly unwrap
They are a set of "Italian" Weber 50dco/sp's. On closer inspection they look like new old stock.
They are the largest I can go carburetor size wise as the inlet manifold is 50mm diameter inside also.
These are fitted with 46mm chokes & should be good for 8300rpm before running into issues.
All the reading I've done about the Weber dcoe series carbs point out the fact that the choke size dictates were max power will be.
I also read that every application is different & tuning for top end power will compromise low end tractability & vice versa.
Now that I have 40, 45 & 50 dcoe's it should hopefully be possible to tune each one for what I want from the bike.
See, I told you I'd been a good lad
Right then, what else do I need
Another option if you're not getting maximum rev's, is to use one twin choke carb per cylinder
Not that you want to be making new inlet manifolds I'm sure Chris.