No Spark-No Go + massive frustration!

[sirch345]

My understanding is there is a spark on every rotation of the crank

Correct it's a lost spark system. It may sound silly bit have you changed the plugs. Swap the coils and leads over and see if the problem reverses to rule out HT lead and coil.

Welcome to the forum.

(:-})

Carl Thanks for the quick response and the welcome, and yes I have new plugs, and have swapped coils/leads and fitted 2nd hand ignition and converter units - no change!
Regards

Did you actually try the rear HT coil (the one on the bike that is showing a good spark) on the front cylinder I realise you say you swapped coils, but was that for a spare 2nd hand coil

Chris.

[Gr8whenitgoes]

Wow this gets stranger and stranger.

Could a weak Ignition Triger Voltage output lead to a low Converter output?

Not sure but if there is a big spike this may damage the converter unit which bring me onto you next question.

has anyone been able to reliably measure the trigger and converter output voltages? if so how?

I have not done it myself as it would require the use of an Oscilloscope to view the Sine wave and you will see it switching on and off by the wave pattern.



Basically either up or down from the centre line is on or off and any excess peaks will be voltage spikes.

FYI The pulse generator/ignition trigger usually fails at higher revs. So let me get this right, the front wasn't sparking at all but then did initially spark once the harness was changed.

(:-})

Carl as usual - very helpful thanks. I'm hoping to see a local tuners to see what they can offer in terms of elec diagnostics - I've been at this for so long I need a new set of eyes on the problem! But I had another chat with the local garage that has worked on the bike. They shake their heads, but simply said check connections and simply try to start the engine to see how it responds - I've got an houir today - so I'll try that for the hell of it! Thanks again G

[Gr8whenitgoes]

Did you actually try the rear HT coil (the one on the bike that is showing a good spark) on the front cylinder I realise you say you swapped coils, but was that for a spare 2nd hand coil

Chris.

Chris
Thanks for this. Just on my way out so this is short - I know I tried the spare on the back before fitting on the front - to prove the coil - as I said to Carl I'm going to trya couple of things later today ! thanks for the interest Graham

[Varastorm]

It sounds as if you have changed everything bar the pickup coil screwed to the inside of the clutch housing.

That's were I would go next, looking for loose fastening screws or a knackered coil or broken wires. You never know if some one has been in there playing around with ignition advancers in the past or rerouted the coil wires poorly whilst doing a clutch change.

I am no electronics wizard, but there seems to be little else to check

Hope you fix it btw

[VTRDark]

That's where he is now I think Vara. One could simply change it out as like you say that's the only thing not changed. Or test it to see if it's at fault first, which is where the Oscilloscope comes in. Though saying that is the wiring loom still good. I find it strange that changing the loom briefly got the front spark back but then soon failed.

I've been at this for so long I need a new set of eyes on the problem! But I had another chat with the local garage that has worked on the bike. They shake their heads, but simply said check connections and simply try to start the engine to see how it responds

I can feel It's getting to you now. Sometimes it's best to take a break and come back with clearer eyes. You doing the right thing in going through a process of elimination in a methodical order along the lines of, simplest to check/change, more prone to failure.

As far as that garage have said it's basically play with your loom and hope for pot luck.

Did you see the following thread
http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=36217

(:-})

[tony.mon]

Undo the sidestand cutout and bridge the loom side connections.

Then squirt electrical cleaner (use wd40 if you don't have anything else) into the engine stop switch on the right bar.
You'll need to undo the screws and split the switch but won't need to undo throttle cables.

Check for loose or broken wires in the rh switchgear while you're there.

Lastly, fit a jump start battery (car battery is ok) and try starting it again, and see if your sparks return.

Just a few thoughts.

[Gr8whenitgoes]

Great responses - thanks - the thing that gets me is that the rear has been consistently good, and only the front breaks down. I came to the same conclusion as Carl and so an engine tuner is going to take the bike, and as he is still doing his college course I am hoping he has access to better diagnostic equipment - well see. By the way the Ig trigger was the first component to be changed - at the time the logic was perfect (engine heat causing a breakdown with the insulation/coil)! So now waiting for man with white van - I'll let you know! Thanks again Graham

[Gr8whenitgoes]

Had a call earlier this evening, and the mechanic simply said listen to this - and he fired up the bike - and it sounded fine - I am going to have a full chat with him on monday, as he is away supporting a BSB rider, but he did say he cleaned the connections with brake fluid. I said that I had soaked all the connectors with switch cleaner and repeatedly made and broke all the connections

- If this was the only cause of the fault condition, and I'll find out on monday - the lesson for me is - 1st clean all connections thoroughly before changing components!

I am not sure about using brake fluid, as I would be concerned about leaving residues in the connector (a good flush with WD40 is on the cards). The contacts all looked bright and clean, but maybe there was stuff in one connection that was hard and resistive, that even switch cleaner wouldnt touch

Thanks again for the helpful comments esp Carl and Lloydie - I've learnt a lot - and fi anything else comes from chatting to the mechanic on monday, I'll let you know

[lloydie]

Me what did I do ?
It's all Carl's fault


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[VTRDark]

Well I for one would like to know exactly where the issue is/was. Contact cleaner would be the best as it's designed for that purpose and then a dab of dielectric grease. Vaseline does the trick. I wonder if the original problem was in the loom. You have then changed the loom for a used unknown loom and then brought a different problem along with it like a short, hence the working and then not working.

Lloyd you suggested the loom change.

(:-})

[artee]

Had a call earlier this evening, and the mechanic simply said listen to this - and he fired up the bike - and it sounded fine - I am going to have a full chat with him on monday, as he is away supporting a BSB rider, but he did say he cleaned the connections with brake fluid. I said that I had soaked all the connectors with switch cleaner and repeatedly made and broke all the connections

- If this was the only cause of the fault condition, and I'll find out on monday - the lesson for me is - 1st clean all connections thoroughly before changing components!

I am not sure about using brake fluid, as I would be concerned about leaving residues in the connector (a good flush with WD40 is on the cards). The contacts all looked bright and clean, but maybe there was stuff in one connection that was hard and resistive, that even switch cleaner wouldnt touch

Thanks again for the helpful comments esp Carl and Lloydie - I've learnt a lot - and fi anything else comes from chatting to the mechanic on monday, I'll let you know

At least there's light at the end of the tunnel.

Roger

[Gr8whenitgoes]

Me what did I do ?
It's all Carl's fault


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You cant get out of this one - I think the basics of connection cleaning and methodical progression was one yours - but to be honest I dont care as long as the b.... thing works as it should esp as the better weather is coming - remember I'm a bit north, we have to wait longer for the sun

[Gr8whenitgoes]

Well I for one would like to know exactly where the issue is/was. Contact cleaner would be the best as it's designed for that purpose and then a dab of dielectric grease. Vaseline does the trick. I wonder if the original problem was in the loom. You have then changed the loom for a used unknown loom and then brought a different problem along with it like a short, hence the working and then not working.

Lloyd you suggested the loom change.

(:-})

Like you I am perplexed as to what caused this problem, I only hope its not a gremlin that will return!

[Gr8whenitgoes]

Had a call earlier this evening, and the mechanic simply said listen to this - and he fired up the bike - and it sounded fine - I am going to have a full chat with him on monday, as he is away supporting a BSB rider, but he did say he cleaned the connections with brake fluid. I said that I had soaked all the connectors with switch cleaner and repeatedly made and broke all the connections

- If this was the only cause of the fault condition, and I'll find out on monday - the lesson for me is - 1st clean all connections thoroughly before changing components!

I am not sure about using brake fluid, as I would be concerned about leaving residues in the connector (a good flush with WD40 is on the cards). The contacts all looked bright and clean, but maybe there was stuff in one connection that was hard and resistive, that even switch cleaner wouldnt touch

Thanks again for the helpful comments esp Carl and Lloydie - I've learnt a lot - and fi anything else comes from chatting to the mechanic on monday, I'll let you know

At least there's light at the end of the tunnel.

Roger

When I chatted with the mechanic, I was able to say that at least the Ignition Control and Converter Units had been proven on a well sorted VTR - yours - that seemed to be the only conclusive bit of information I could give him! Thanks again - by the way the BSB rider is in superstocks 600 called Wilson and he hails from your area - small world

[Wicky]

Good to hear you're up and running after the vexing problem/s.