I Bought It With a Knock

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Varastorm
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Re: I Bought It With a Knock

Post by Varastorm »

Hi Jim, stumbled over this whilst reading about cylinder head porting on the US Superhawk site.

Its an old thread about things to watch out for during a rebuild :thumbup:
Yep, take your time and you will be fine. Do a dummy assembly, make sure all the bolts are sorted, etc, etc. Here is an old post I found from when I rebuilt my engine.

Conrod big end bearings are different for each rod and have different part numbers. One bearing has a smaller sized oil hole in it to help equalize oil pressure, as both bearings are fed from the same oil gallery. This is the front cylinder rod, the rear has the larger hole.

Both conrods face the oil gallery to the rear of the engine, ie the front cylinder faces into the V and the rear away from the V. The conrods are different, and only go in one spot. This is not evident until you go to fit the bearings.

Crankshaft main bearings are radically different as one side feeds oil to the big end bearings. This is quite obvious when you look at the journals. The trick with the bearings is with the sizing, as you have a crankshaft code (mine is no. 1) and then you have a crankcase code (a letter). These codes cross reference to give a bearing code (a colour). The trick is each side of the crankcase can have a different code and require a separet bearing. My engine crankcase codes are B & C, so I have one green coded bearing and one brown. They are of course different sizes.


Well finally the bottom end is now assembled. So crank, rods, pistons, transmission shafts and selectors etc are all in. It has been a long wait for these pieces to be correct.

A couple of things to note with the assembly if you are doing this. As I have mentioned previously, both conrods face the same way, towards the rear of the engine, and the big end bearings for each rod are different. Beware!

No paper gaskets are used between the crancase halves, just silicone. This needs to be applied sparingly as oil galleries are close by sealing surfaces, so take note from the manual where sealant is required and do not stray from this. Ensure all dowels are inserted before assembly.

The other trouble I had, believe it or not, was to have all the bolts lined up ready to go. There are 10, 8 & 6mm bolts all of varying lengths, and requiring different torque settings. For example in the 10mm bolts of which there are 8 in total, there are 3 different lengths. These of course must go in the correct threads. So I pre-assembled the crankcase halves and sorted out all the bolts before applying sealant, and then putting all the bolts in and torquing up as per the manual. Even doing this, and having a 15cfm twin pump compressor with an air ratchet to put the bolts in before torquing, it took me longer than I would have liked ideally. I wanted it all done asap to ensure the sealant didn't start going off before I was finished.

In reality, there was most probably nothing to be concerned with, but it took longer than expected. I would suggest you be organised before you start.
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Big_Jim59
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Re: I Bought It With a Knock

Post by Big_Jim59 »

Varastorm wrote:Hi Jim, stumbled over this whilst reading about cylinder head porting on the US Superhawk site.

Its an old thread about things to watch out for during a rebuild :thumbup:
Great points all. I know it is silly but I make rough drawings of the bolt layout on a piece of pizza box and then make holes in it to match the bolt pattern. I then jam the bolts into the cardboard holding them in the original order they came out. No guessing. I figure I will have to dry fit the cases several times to check bearing clearances and such.

Careful assembly (and I mean really careful assembly) is the key. I went to a Vo-Tech high school where I had diesel tech for half the school day. We had a real shop with a motley assortment of diesels from a 2 cylinder 8V-71 Detroit to Army reject Continental mulit-fuels and a Cummins of two. One day the instructor passed the word around that he was going to give a lecture and for us to assemble in the class room. He said he was going to tell us the most important thing we would ever need to know in our career as a mechanic. We got pen and paper and waited with anticipation for imparted wisdom. He came in and wrote on the black board. "You never build and engine with your head up your ass!" Truer words were never spoken. They should be carved over a door someplace.

. . .or is butt?
Motorcycling is a tool with which you can accomplish something meaningful in your life. It is an art." Theresa Wallach
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lloydie
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Re: I Bought It With a Knock

Post by lloydie »

Varastorm wrote:Hi Jim, stumbled over this whilst reading about cylinder head porting on the US Superhawk site.

Its an old thread about things to watch out for during a rebuild :thumbup:
Yep, take your time and you will be fine. Do a dummy assembly, make sure all the bolts are sorted, etc, etc. Here is an old post I found from when I rebuilt my engine.

Conrod big end bearings are different for each rod and have different part numbers. One bearing has a smaller sized oil hole in it to help equalize oil pressure, as both bearings are fed from the same oil gallery. This is the front cylinder rod, the rear has the larger hole.

Both conrods face the oil gallery to the rear of the engine, ie the front cylinder faces into the V and the rear away from the V. The conrods are different, and only go in one spot. This is not evident until you go to fit the bearings.

Crankshaft main bearings are radically different as one side feeds oil to the big end bearings. This is quite obvious when you look at the journals. The trick with the bearings is with the sizing, as you have a crankshaft code (mine is no. 1) and then you have a crankcase code (a letter). These codes cross reference to give a bearing code (a colour). The trick is each side of the crankcase can have a different code and require a separet bearing. My engine crankcase codes are B & C, so I have one green coded bearing and one brown. They are of course different sizes.


Well finally the bottom end is now assembled. So crank, rods, pistons, transmission shafts and selectors etc are all in. It has been a long wait for these pieces to be correct.

A couple of things to note with the assembly if you are doing this. As I have mentioned previously, both conrods face the same way, towards the rear of the engine, and the big end bearings for each rod are different. Beware!

No paper gaskets are used between the crancase halves, just silicone. This needs to be applied sparingly as oil galleries are close by sealing surfaces, so take note from the manual where sealant is required and do not stray from this. Ensure all dowels are inserted before assembly.

The other trouble I had, believe it or not, was to have all the bolts lined up ready to go. There are 10, 8 & 6mm bolts all of varying lengths, and requiring different torque settings. For example in the 10mm bolts of which there are 8 in total, there are 3 different lengths. These of course must go in the correct threads. So I pre-assembled the crankcase halves and sorted out all the bolts before applying sealant, and then putting all the bolts in and torquing up as per the manual. Even doing this, and having a 15cfm twin pump compressor with an air ratchet to put the bolts in before torquing, it took me longer than I would have liked ideally. I wanted it all done asap to ensure the sealant didn't start going off before I was finished.

In reality, there was most probably nothing to be concerned with, but it took longer than expected. I would suggest you be organised before you start.
Now you have me thinking "have I fitted the con rods around the correct way " !!! I'll check tonight
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Varastorm
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Re: I Bought It With a Knock

Post by Varastorm »

lloydie wrote:Now you have me thinking "have I fitted the con rods around the correct way " !!! I'll check tonight
Doubt, it must be the engine builders worst nightmare :lol: :lol: :lol:
Big_Jim59 wrote:You never build and engine with your head up your ass!" Truer words were never spoken. They should be carved over a door someplace.
Have you room over your door Lloydie :lol: :lol: :lol: :thumbup:
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lloydie
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Re: I Bought It With a Knock

Post by lloydie »

Varastorm wrote:
lloydie wrote:Now you have me thinking "have I fitted the con rods around the correct way " !!! I'll check tonight
Doubt, it must be the engine builders worst nightmare :lol: :lol: :lol:
Big_Jim59 wrote:You never build and engine with your head up your ass!" Truer words were never spoken. They should be carved over a door someplace.
Have you room over your door Lloydie :lol: :lol: :lol: :thumbup:
Well there's no room below it !!

It's really playing on my mind now and I'm sure the rear is around the wrong way thinking back .
I'll know for sure when I get home
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lloydie
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Re: I Bought It With a Knock

Post by lloydie »

Checked and I did put them in the correct way :-)
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VTRDark
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Re: I Bought It With a Knock

Post by VTRDark »

Ha ha, that is a sign of old age. My elderly neighbour rang me up yesterday. He was out and about and was panicking over whether he left something on the cooker or not and it was playing on his mind. I have some spare keys so had to go and check for him. It was all switched off and no house fires. Shame really as I like a nice fire. :lol:

(:-})
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Varastorm
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Re: I Bought It With a Knock

Post by Varastorm »

lloydie wrote:Checked and I did put them in the correct way :-)
once doubt sets in you've got to check :thumbup:
cybercarl wrote:Shame really as I like a nice fire.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Big_Jim59
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Re: I Bought It With a Knock

Post by Big_Jim59 »

lloydie wrote:Now you have me thinking "have I fitted the con rods around the correct way " !!! I'll check tonight
Don't feel bad. I have two bank cards in my wallet and today I got them the wrong way around. My pin numbers wouldn't work and i couldn't figure out what not?
Motorcycling is a tool with which you can accomplish something meaningful in your life. It is an art." Theresa Wallach
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Big_Jim59
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Re: I Bought It With a Knock

Post by Big_Jim59 »

I received my used top and bottom case, pistons, oil pump and assorted bolts in the post today. I am just waiting on my new parts order and I will be good to go.
Motorcycling is a tool with which you can accomplish something meaningful in your life. It is an art." Theresa Wallach
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lloydie
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Re: I Bought It With a Knock

Post by lloydie »

Big_Jim59 wrote:I received my used top and bottom case, pistons, oil pump and assorted bolts in the post today. I am just waiting on my new parts order and I will be good to go.
Give them all a good clean while your waiting .
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Big_Jim59
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Re: I Bought It With a Knock

Post by Big_Jim59 »

lloydie wrote:
Big_Jim59 wrote:I received my used top and bottom case, pistons, oil pump and assorted bolts in the post today. I am just waiting on my new parts order and I will be good to go.
Give them all a good clean while your waiting .
The first step on the long road back to bike health starts with a careful clean and inspection of the cases.

This is my bold keeping system. As I stated before I use cardboard to hold bolts in order. This is for the case bolts top and bottom. I have similar cards for the side covers.

Image
Motorcycling is a tool with which you can accomplish something meaningful in your life. It is an art." Theresa Wallach
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VTRDark
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Re: I Bought It With a Knock

Post by VTRDark »

You can't go wrong with bits of cardboard. I've used that technique myself in the past :thumbup:

How's the weather doing over there in Dallas. Are you missing out on ride time?

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lloydie
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Re: I Bought It With a Knock

Post by lloydie »

Big_Jim59 wrote:
lloydie wrote:
Big_Jim59 wrote:I received my used top and bottom case, pistons, oil pump and assorted bolts in the post today. I am just waiting on my new parts order and I will be good to go.
Give them all a good clean while your waiting .
The first step on the long road back to bike health starts with a careful clean and inspection of the cases.

This is my bold keeping system. As I stated before I use cardboard to hold bolts in order. This is for the case bolts top and bottom. I have similar cards for the side covers.

Image
I just chuk them in a box and sort them out later as for some reason I can remember where all bolts fit !!
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VTRDark
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Re: I Bought It With a Knock

Post by VTRDark »

Oh but Lloyd sometimes its critical that the same bolt goes in the same hole it came out of :roll: unless your using new bolts. Engine internals I would be a bit more critical about.

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