VTR track bike conversion

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tony.mon
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Re: VTR track bike conversion

Post by tony.mon »

Graft a bicycle disc on it, they weigh next to nothing.
I don't know if a thumb brake weighs less than a foot version, but you'd have the extra length of cable or hydraulic pipe to compensate.

How about a nice lithium caliper and carbon disc?
It's not falling off, it's an upgrade opportunity.
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gilson
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Re: VTR track bike conversion

Post by gilson »

tony.mon wrote:Graft a bicycle disc on it, they weigh next to nothing.
I don't know if a thumb brake weighs less than a foot version, but you'd have the extra length of cable or hydraulic pipe to compensate.

How about a nice lithium caliper and carbon disc?
OK, OK, I get it. Too far? I'll get my coat.
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tony.mon
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Re: VTR track bike conversion

Post by tony.mon »

gilson wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:11 pm
tony.mon wrote:Graft a bicycle disc on it, they weigh next to nothing.
I don't know if a thumb brake weighs less than a foot version, but you'd have the extra length of cable or hydraulic pipe to compensate.

How about a nice lithium caliper and carbon disc?
OK, OK, I get it. Too far? I'll get my coat.
Not really, you have me thinking now.....
It's not falling off, it's an upgrade opportunity.
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freeridenick
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Re: VTR track bike conversion

Post by freeridenick »


gilson wrote:For those of you who ride track days in the UK, have you ever been formally scrutinised?

I'm thinking of removing my back brake as I never use it and am unlikely too, so I could save a kilo or two.

However a racer friend of mine says that if my bike is ever scrutinised it would fail and my day would be over.

What are your thoughts?
No scrutineering on track days but if the organisers think a bike is a safety hazard then I can see them chucking the owner off the day. Never heard of that though.

I wouldn't take it off though. Too much of a pain to stick it back on if it turns wet and I'd not want to be on a wet track with just a front brake. In fact I use the rear a bit in the dry too. Can be handy to stop the front lifting off crests and dabbing the rear brake has got me out of a tank-slapper before.
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gilson
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Re: VTR track bike conversion

Post by gilson »

I had a good day at the Brands GP circuit yesterday. After starting damp the weather improved and ended with sunshine.

I shared a garage with some rich former racers. They were cool but man did they have some money. This bike in particular was amazing. It was a BMW S1000rr HP4 Alpha racing spec. Custom built from the bare bones into a 160kg 230BHP uncontrollable rocket. After each session the owner would plug in his laptop and change the settings. Anti wheelie, traction control mainly but of course there were others. His mate joked and said that it cost around 80k, which the owner apparently denied. I think they thought me and my friend were "cute" with our cheap bikes. Their wheels probably cost more than my bike!

One of the guys with a super blingy R1 had this helmet drier! A stand with a fan to dry it out. Quality!

Personally I really enjoyed my recent mod of the 1/6 turn HRC throttle.

I'm still considering removing my back brake, it really has no effect. I will need a spacer to take the place of the rear caliper holder.

ImageImage
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RodneyT
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Re: VTR track bike conversion

Post by RodneyT »

been following this thread with interest as I have an '05 VTR that I've recently converted to a track bike.

My local track is Hidden Valley in Darwin, Australia and our biggest problem is coping with 35deg heat at our races.
Anyway, all I've done to the old girl is put race fairings on, Carbonadi clutch cover, new camchain tensioners, new clip-ons, braided brake lines, 44T rear sprocket and stickier tyres. She's done 74,000 km and the clutch is probably due for for replacement soon as getting grabby. Had a couple of offs due to cold tyres(that was before i got warmers) and have cracked a couple of clutch covers - think I've cleaned out the Australian wreckers of 2nd hand ones.

I've been interested to note the discussion about the lightened flywheel and it sounds like it makes quite a difference to acceleration. Although the extra teeth on the rear sprocket made a big difference, a bit more oomph out of corners would help keep the fours and triples in sight. Is it a big job getting the flywheel off? Any other work that ought to be done? I'd like to keep the motor as standard as I can to help with reliability but find shifting at 8 grand works best and try to keep the revs between 4 and 8 and find I get much better drive short-shifting than revving it to redline.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated. I'll try and post a photo once II've figured out how to reduce the size of the image
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gilson
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Re: VTR track bike conversion

Post by gilson »


RodneyT wrote:been following this thread with interest as I have an '05 VTR that I've recently converted to a track bike.

My local track is Hidden Valley in Darwin, Australia and our biggest problem is coping with 35deg heat at our races.

Anyway, all I've done to the old girl is put race fairings on, Carbonadi clutch cover, new camchain tensioners, new clip-ons, braided brake lines, 44T rear sprocket and stickier tyres. She's done 74,000 km and the clutch is probably due for for replacement soon as getting grabby. Had a couple of offs due to cold tyres(that was before i got warmers) and have cracked a couple of clutch covers - think I've cleaned out the Australian wreckers of 2nd hand ones.

I've been interested to note the discussion about the lightened flywheel and it sounds like it makes quite a difference to acceleration.

Although the extra teeth on the rear sprocket made a big difference, a bit more oomph out of corners would help keep the fours and triples in sight.

Any other work that ought to be done? I'd like to keep the motor as standard as I can to help with reliability but find shifting at 8 grand works best and try to keep the revs between 4 and 8 and find I get much better drive short-shifting than revving it to redline.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated. I'll try and post a photo once II've figured out how to reduce the size of the image
35C would be a problem that I'd like to experience in the UK. This summer has been poor to say the least.

There are two additional relatively cost effective upgrades. Upgrading the internals of the forks and the front brakes. You can find details on this brilliant forum in the workshop section.

I was very pleased with the lightened flywheel mod. It makes the engine rev more freely.

I've not experimented with extra teeth, I'll investigate. Nothing more satisfying than beating those thous around the corner and smiling at them as they blast past up the straight. Only to catch them again a few corners later. They know... (although at Snetterton yesterday, in the advanced group, it didn't happen very often at all).

Is it a big job getting the flywheel off?

A mechanic friend of mine did this for me. Apparently the problem is cracking off the central nut but there are some instructions in the Workshop. Generally though it's simple.

I agree about keeping it standard and this is also my theory too. Even though the engines can take decent tuning without issues, it becomes expensive and in my experience the bike moves from being the friendly, no hassle track bike to a bike that requires more care. (although a stage one tuned set up to 125BHP would be brilliant).


I've tried to reduce weight a little. The standard cans are huge but replacing them with lightweight versions caused me problems with sound and slightly altered the fuelling us made it a little vibey. I found some Remus cans which are standard on the 50th anniversary Firestorm, are lighter and are quiet. You can go further with a full Ti system but then Carb changes are required.

A lithium battery saves a few KGs and are not ridiculously more expensive than a standard battery, if you have to replace it anyway. Although you will need a lithium specific battery charger too.

Another mod for me was replacing the throttle tube with the HRC 1\6 QA one. I think it was 30GBP and a direct swap. Ensuring the clip on is free from any lube helps it spring back. Also removing the return cable is popular too. This mod is probably my favourite. Unlike the lightened flywheel, it's not something that you get used to so quickly. I'm sure if I rode a standard fly wheel storm I'd notice a big difference but it's so satisfying giving it full throttle with ease.

Recently I saved 10kgs by not filling the tank up before the day. I take 20L jerry can and worked out that I use only 4L per session. I bought a 5L measuring jug (10GBP) and an aquarium syphon pump (8GBP) and removed all petrol and replaced with exactly 6L. That's a huge weight saving for free!

I hope this helps.
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RodneyT
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Re: VTR track bike conversion

Post by RodneyT »

Thanks Gilson
Ive found from experience that filling the tank to where you can just see the fuel is plenty for each race. Haven't touched the suspension as yet as I haven't had any issues with it and figure until I get fast enough for it to tie itself in knots I'll leave well alone. I've been experimenting with different brake pads and so far haven't had an issue other than a bit of excessive drag, although seems to be alright when everything is heated up. I do bleed the brakes every 2-3 meetings.
Regarding exhausts, i put a set of Delcevic cans on without the baffles and they're considerably lighter than the Staintunes that were fitted. i was thinking of removing thee airbox and associated pollution control gadgets, but reading other topics on the forum has convinced to leave that as is for now unless I want to start chasing my tail...

I know there are plenty of places that I could be faster - it's the brain that stops me doing that rather than the bike at this stage.

Great website - I've found out loads of stuff since joining just a couple of days ago
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gilson
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Re: VTR track bike conversion

Post by gilson »

Welcome to the forum!

If you are actually racing then you should be giving me advice.

It's always a balance of satisfying the need to modify with the need to just start her up and ride.

And you are so right, it's not thr bike that's holding me back but the skill of the rider.

Some of the fast riders were unbelievably quick. Often when I get passed I can at least stay behind them for a few corners. These guys were out of sight before the next corner. It's quite humbling really and good for the ego.

The search function is also very good at finding information and there are many chaps on here that are super knowledgeable so do post and ask questions.

And pictures are always a pleasure to see especially if it's a firestorm being tracked or raced.
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KermitLeFrog
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Re: VTR track bike conversion

Post by KermitLeFrog »

I hear quite a lot of people saying they never use the rear brake. To me that's such a waste of a useful control.

Unless your rear wheel is off the ground it will help you slow down.

You can use it to tighten your line without sitting the bike up.

You can use it to dampen off/on throttle transitions. Holding it on during throttle application to dampen chain snatch. Applied and then eased off with an open throttle it smoothly controls acceleration.

It keeps those wheelies under control and is a lot smoother than chopping the throttle.

Why don't you try it out?
"I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered" (George Best, RIP)
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gilson
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Re: VTR track bike conversion

Post by gilson »

KermitLeFrog wrote:I hear quite a lot of people saying they never use the rear brake. To me that's such a waste of a useful control.

Unless your rear wheel is off the ground it will help you slow down.

You can use it to tighten your line without sitting the bike up.

You can use it to dampen off/on throttle transitions. Holding it on during throttle application to dampen chain snatch. Applied and then eased off with an open throttle it smoothly controls acceleration.

It keeps those wheelies under control and is a lot smoother than chopping the throttle.

Why don't you try it out?
I'll do more investigation on all those things before I make the decision. It's probable that I'm just not good enough to learn how to use it.
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lloydie
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Re: VTR track bike conversion

Post by lloydie »

You’ll be glad to have a rear brake on a wet day I know I was .
And also when you’ve cooked the fronts least you still have the rear to slow you down 😉
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RodneyT
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Re: VTR track bike conversion

Post by RodneyT »

Another round this weekend.... I also haven't used the rear brake at all while racing on either my CBR300R or the VTR. i always use both brakes on the street so not sure why I've never used it on the track - too many things to think about. We've a private practice sesion in another couple of weeks so might try using the rear brake through some of the corners and see what happens....
Have also figured out how to attach photos but then went and attached it twice and can't figure out how to delete one. Doh! :problem:
TERRA Rd 3 21.png
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gilson
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Re: VTR track bike conversion

Post by gilson »

No harm in seeing those twice! Nice one.

I notice you've tapped in some bobbins, I must do that.

I also notice you have an unusual engine casing, well I've not seen them before, and you've extended the oil filter protector too.

Nice!
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RodneyT
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Re: VTR track bike conversion

Post by RodneyT »

by 'engine casing' do you mean the clutch cover or the belly pan thing?
The clutch cover is standard and has now got a Carbonadi cover glued on, but I still have to have the bolt-on home-made bit on there to pass scrutineering. Looks a bit like scaffolding, but will hopefully do the job when needed.

I extended the oil filter protector with alloy strip and then fibreglassed a skin over it as we have to have a belly-pan to pass scrutineering and I couldn't get one from any of the fairing suppliers in Australia despite them advertising them still. It's a bit ugly but matte black hides a lot of sins....

Will change the clutch plates in the off-season and look at getting the fly-wheel lightened. I know of someone in Darwin who has it done and had to send it to Melbourne to get it done but not sure what's happening at the moment with the covid lockdown down there. Hopefully engineering shops are classified as essential workers!

I was also going to remove the airbox and all the associated crap inside it, but , looking at fabiostar's post about the Spondon VTR and the troubles he and others have had with that I'll just leave it alone for now. Really, it's fine as is... the track has a km long straight and the rest is fairly flowing. I lose out to the 600s down the straight but generally catch 'em at the first turn 'cos i can brake later.

I'm just an old geezer out there having fun....
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