New VTR rider..project

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gtecomp
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:21 pm

New VTR rider..project

Post by gtecomp »

Well, well well,

VTR owner from a month and bike is already on pieces.

The bike ...dark blue VTR '2002, 28 000km on speedo, when I start to disassemble the bike, there was light incident on right side (bikes aways fall right...for some unknown reason), but nothing serious.

Start of project I read forums 2 weeks to check what is done with this bikes, and of course start with 'normal' VTR mods

- clean the carbs, put 48 jet, adjust TPS, remove pair - that was easy

- want a 6 spoke wheels - rear was easy, some powder coating and ready, the front.....hahahah. THE FRONT .I check maybe 20 ads and couple of wreck yards...no. They told me VFR and CBR F3 fronts are swapped in 893,900, 919 Blades...who is still riding 20 years old Fireblades?. So finally and not cheap I found VFR 800 rim...my brake rotors don't fit, bought a rotors...still not fitting as far as VFR hub is 107mm between rotors mounting surface and VTR is 100mm. So I am pissed off, mainly because me lathe can't handle 17" rims and must go to a friend and I don't want to go there, because :beer: it will end badly. Any way 6 spoke project in progress

- new tail...for now I just cut the subframe on pieces and start to produce a new one. Pictures is needed to describe what is the idea.

- cans...I want specific cone shape oval cans ...but with delivery's this day I choose something from local market...an carbon LASER's from R1? or something. I installed them ...just to have an idea is, not final.

- tank - I dropped the tank during carbs maintenance, so now new paint is needed...any way I want the bike red...HONDA = RED
gtecomp
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Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:21 pm

Re: New VTR rider..project

Post by gtecomp »

But all this is too easy...soooo I want to convert to fuel injection and read from couple of days...just to make an action plan. And of course I have some questions:

IGNITION SYSTEM

It seems to be wasted spark...strange because working cycle are just 90 deg and there is possibility of very early 'detonation' in front cylinder, but since it works, probably not a problem

I not sure 100% (bike is on pieces so I can not confirm) ,but ignition is CDI. This Ignition Amplifier module is phisicaly too big for just to be 2 channel ignition switch. Strange is that what a people use stick coils (which are not CDI coils ) and the coils holds this abuse. Just to be sure a check resistnace on GSXR stick coil 1.2-1.5. The VTR coil is 0,8....scooter CDI coil is 0,8 too....so smaller primary winding, so ignition is CDI. Right???

FUEL SYSTEM

I plan to by XL1000 Varadero ITB'S...tank VFR800 or external pump...we will see.

WIRING

Thinks are looking good here. Amplifier module can stay, place of 'ECU' can be switch with 'stand alone' ECU. Most of needed signals are coming there
- coils
- engine temp
-trigger crank

This is the plan and for now
tony.mon
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Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:46 pm
Location: Norf Kent

Re: New VTR rider..project

Post by tony.mon »

You might consider adapting varadero heads as they have cam position sensors.
What tb's do you have in mind?
Vara ones are too small, I was looking a while ago but some Ducati v twin ones looked about right. Can't recall which model, though.
It's not falling off, it's an upgrade opportunity.
gtecomp
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:21 pm

Re: New VTR rider..project

Post by gtecomp »

I'm very 'basic' mapper. Long time ago when I made Gixxer turbo (oil cooled, with gsxr600 TB as far as they were 'splitable' and can be adjusted to different bore spacing) I really couldn't find any great difference between group injectors and fully sequent, and belive me I try everything, but...'basic mapper'.

About 'Vera' throttle ...they 42mm against 45mm VTR carb...I think, it will be enough...It's obvious that the bike will be not the most powerfull VTR, but the 'road' is important, not the final result (that is how I fill 100sqm garage with scrap projects :) )

If varadero TB fit and some how even fit to air box, it will be really easy project... Wiring-wise, all bike futures will be spared tacho/speedo etc ...but HISS will be lost
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sirch345
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Re: New VTR rider..project

Post by sirch345 »

I believe the carbs for our Firestorms/Superhawks are 48mm, not 45mm,

Chris.
A closed mouth gathers no foot. :thumbup:
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8541Hawk
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Location: Bella Vista, AR

Re: New VTR rider..project

Post by 8541Hawk »

sirch345 wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 4:42 pm I believe the carbs for our Firestorms/Superhawks are 48mm, not 45mm,

Chris.
Yes they are 48mm carbs :thumbup:
Loud pipes don't save lives, knowing how to ride your bike will save your life.
gtecomp
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Re: New VTR rider..project

Post by gtecomp »

hm...and varadero TB diameter is 45mm??? right???
mik_str
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Re: New VTR rider..project

Post by mik_str »

gtecomp wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 5:01 pm hm...and varadero TB diameter is 45mm??? right???
Says 42 mm here: https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model ... ro_07.html
99 VTR1000F Firestorm, a.k.a. The Carbon Express
tony.mon
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Re: New VTR rider..project

Post by tony.mon »

I thought that a carb-to-tb conversion always goes a little larger, but I can't recall where I got that little nugget from.

Going smaller is likely to lose you some top end power but you might fatten out the midrange. But on a storm, does it need that?

Interesting project you have going here.

The later varaderos had a number of changes to the early ones, one of these was a change to fi from carbs on the early ones.
It's not falling off, it's an upgrade opportunity.
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popkat
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Re: New VTR rider..project

Post by popkat »

The VFR front rim you need is the 750 1994-1997 model, also NC30 will fit. Blade rear wheel will match from 1992-1999.

Good luck going FI, not worth it imo as its such a smooth bike with carbs, I can't see much gain for the work involved.



.
http://www.bidefordmotorcycles.co.uk
2014 CRMC Post classic Superbike champion.
2014 CRMC Post classic senior production champion. On a Suzuki Katana 1100
My bikes, Firestorm, Suzuki GSX-s1000 Katana, VFR800Fi. Projects, 1986 popup Katana, 3 XJ600’s
MK_WF
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Re: New VTR rider..project

Post by MK_WF »

The Ignition is a CDI system with 2 boxes.
One controller (ICU) that gets the engine rpm, TPS and all the other stuff and the CDI (converter) that solely creates a spark when it's getting the appropriate input signal.

I successfully used 2 different Ignitech units on a VTR1000F.
Firstly you could use a TCI P4 to replace the stock ICU and tell the stock converter to spark.
This gives you a fully programmable ignition map (advance vs. rpm vs. TPS or MAP)
Secondly I replaced both boxes by an Ignitech DC CDI P2.

Concerning the EFI conversion there are already a few around. The SP1 throttle bodies Incl linkage, TPS and pressure regulator are kind of plug & play.
A VFR800 tank would offer the in-tank fuel pump.
Not sure about a camshaft position sensor. There have been people using a MS2 solely ob speed density and a crank sensor, but on the other side, the Varadero would offer a valve cover with a sensor.

The stock converter can be controlled by any EFI ECU that is able to output 12V rectangular signals (which is what the Ignitech TCI uses).
I've been told the later SP models use a 5V logic level, though I didn't measure what a stock SC36 ICU sends to the converter.

As I used a Microsquirt to EFI my RD350 back in 2007, I'd tend to use on for the VTR, too.
But in my case I'll leave that for my retirement.

BTW: I noticed, you also registered on the German VTR forum, so feel free to search there for "Ignitech" and you'll find my mentioned projects.
Bye
Martin
gtecomp
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Re: New VTR rider..project

Post by gtecomp »

HI Martin

yep I registered in German forum (a long long time ago I specialized in TU Wien, so at least I still can read German), but I can't deal with German forum tread redactor or i can't switch it off...

So If you confirme , ignition is CDI...strange is how stick coils handle this abuse ..japan power. I definitly will swap to stick/COP, it will free some space.

Ignition mapping rpm vs map or TPS is ok, but with stand alone ECU (my turbo gsxr) you have rpm vs tpr vs map at the same time, plus fully programable rev limiter, plus quick-shifter, plus idle chasing with ignition advance (I have very good results with this function) and what ever you want to do with ignition.

off topic: Back then when I mapped 'The turbo gixxer', I connect neutral light signal to ECU and in neutral bike switch to FIRE REV MODE...basically different map with 5000rpm rev limiter and -10 -15 advance. It produce 20-30cm flames from exhaust.


SP1 throttle bodies...very rare here in Bulgaria and in my opinion -'IT is a SIN' - to part SP1 and for sure you will end up in hell.

TLR maybe .
gtecomp
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:21 pm

Re: New VTR rider..project

Post by gtecomp »

Hi Popkat,

about front wheel...there is no such a wheels on market here. If they appear ,they are sold imidiately ...even complete 'nacked' VFR800 wheel is from 100 - 200 Euro.

EFI Gain...most probably not...but it's aways fun to wrenching
gtecomp
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:21 pm

Re: New VTR rider..project

Post by gtecomp »

Instead of working on VTR..I made a little cleaning and created new 'thinking chair'
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gtecomp
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:21 pm

Re: New VTR rider..project

Post by gtecomp »

today I bought vfr 750 front wheel (now I'm big owner of various honda wheels) and xl1000 airbox throttle bodies and wiring. Tomorow will make pictures.
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