New VTR rider..project

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gtecomp
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:21 pm

Re: New VTR rider..project

Post by gtecomp »

hm..I receive tb from varadero and yes they are small. They have really long velocity stacks ... build for torque :D . I bought them on line and when unpack them I call the seller and arquied with him - why he remove idle adjustment wire/cable - he said there was no one. I check the bodies and found some strange device, obviously idle solenoid. Now I see that this bodies are from newer varadero..ABS
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throttle3.jpg
throttle1.jpg
throttle2.jpg
MK_WF
Posts: 130
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:02 pm
Location: Wolfenbuettel/Germany
Contact:

Re: New VTR rider..project

Post by MK_WF »

If you need some materials, I'd ask Werner (aka Twinfreak) from the German VTR Forum.
A while ago he tried to sell his gathered parts as a whole:
https://www.vtr1000.de/index.php?thread ... age-vtr-f/
Bye
Martin
gtecomp
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:21 pm

Re: New VTR rider..project

Post by gtecomp »

thanks for the effort.

The plan

the plan is first to connect ignition system and to get working engine with stand alone ecu. I need some info which help me to spare some time.

- timing - I need info where is TDC according to trigger wheel. It will spare me many times to crank the engine and 'shoot it' with strobe light searching for the mark. If I have this info It will take couple of cranking to find a 'zero'
- connecting cop's to cdi - is any specifics ? which wire where?

The ECU is alreday to my supplier, and the thinks are little speed up.
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MacV2
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Location: Grain

Re: New VTR rider..project

Post by MacV2 »

Making up since 2007, sometimes it's true...Honest...
gtecomp
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:21 pm

Re: New VTR rider..project

Post by gtecomp »

I finally found VFR handle bars...and 'stopping/fixing' pegs are in opposite site...wrong parts again??
I bought F4 COP's...machine them down on lathe, and now rear cylinder is with COP. I'll leave for now, original front coil...for strobe light and osciloscope use.

I checked the tread in previous post, but didn't find needed info. So I'll try to connect the scope to trigger sensor and coil and to match two events in order to see on which tooth of trigger wheel is FT
MK_WF
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Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:02 pm
Location: Wolfenbuettel/Germany
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Re: New VTR rider..project

Post by MK_WF »

There is a 15 deg BTDC mark on the flywheel that you could strobe.
It's behind the plug on the left hand generator cover. The one up left, not the middle one.

You may find my ignition thread interesting as it deals exactly with dialing in the reference point for the ECU

https://www.vtr1000.de/index.php?thread ... C3%BCndbox

And this is the SC36 EFI project of a former member there. Unfortunately he's not active anymore and doesn't reply to messages.
https://www.vtr1000.de/index.php?thread ... 233#post35
Bye
Martin
gtecomp
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:21 pm

Re: New VTR rider..project

Post by gtecomp »

Thanx for help,

but I need another info. I know where timing mark are - I check them yesterday. There is Ignition and timing marking for both cylinders .. this was never the question.

The problem

When I connect the new ECU, I'll be able to read the trigger wheel

Image

The question is how this wheel corespond with TDC of some of cylinders...on which tooth of trigger is Front cylinder TDC.

This can be solved in 4 ways:
- somebody tell me - best way
-put the engine in TDC (Front or Rear cilynder...no matter), remove right engine cover and visually check on which teeth is sensor - no bueno
- connect osciloscope - one chanel to trigger sensor, second to ignition coil, check the graph of two events and match ignition event with count of trigger wheel signals - maybe I'll do this
- connect strobe light, put some advance in ECU, cranking, searching for any marking thru this smaaaaal opening then move advance 5 deg on strobe light, till I find any marking - it's messy job as far as usually oil is spiting thru timing hole during cranking and if you don't have luck - there is what of cranking.
gtecomp
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:21 pm

Re: New VTR rider..project

Post by gtecomp »

Hi Martin

You mention couple of time RD350

Here is mine
Attachments
rd350.jpg
gtecomp
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:21 pm

Re: New VTR rider..project

Post by gtecomp »

more pic's
Attachments
rd350 2.jpg
rd350 wheel.jpg
gtecomp
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:21 pm

Re: New VTR rider..project

Post by gtecomp »

gtecomp wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:07 pm Thanx for help,

but I need another info. I know where timing mark are - I check them yesterday. There is Ignition and timing marking for both cylinders .. this was never the question.

The problem

When I connect the new ECU, I'll be able to read the trigger wheel

Image

The question is how this wheel corespond with TDC of some of cylinders...on which tooth of trigger is Front cylinder TDC.

This can be solved in 4 ways:
- somebody tell me - best way
-put the engine in TDC (Front or Rear cilynder...no matter), remove right engine cover and visually check on which teeth is sensor - no bueno
- connect osciloscope - one chanel to trigger sensor, second to ignition coil, check the graph of two events and match ignition event with count of trigger wheel signals - maybe I'll do this
- connect strobe light, put some advance in ECU, cranking, searching for any marking thru this smaaaaal opening then move advance 5 deg on strobe light, till I find any marking - it's messy job as far as usually oil is spiting thru timing hole during cranking and if you don't have luck - there is what of cranking.

or the answer is in front of my eyes ...two holes in trigger wheel?..it seems they are exactly 90 deg one of each oher???
MK_WF
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Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:02 pm
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Re: New VTR rider..project

Post by MK_WF »

I agree that the answer was in front of your eyes, but you didn't see it in between the load of other information.
The Ignitech unit has exactly the same problem: Decode the 12-3 wheel (i.e. count teeth after the missing teeth)
In the settings tab there's the info on how to accomplish that :
https://www.vtr1000.de/core/index.php?a ... ngs-1-png/

Tooth #4 is for channel 1, #7 for channel #2.
The position of tooth #4 is around 15 deg BTDC for that cylinder. Tooth #1 (the first of the missing teeth) is 90 deg away from #4, so it's either 75 deg ATDC or 105 deg BTDC depending on the rotation direction which I haven't got in mind. (but pretty sure it's 105 deg)
This is usually the angle that EFI ECU's require to assign crank position.

If you're extremely lucky, the ignition part is in the linked megasquirt.de thread. He posted on of his msq's there :
http://megasquirt.de/msforum/download/file.php?id=2775

If it comes to RD350, you may search for my tuning manuals which have kind of a reputation. Lots of people refer to them as the RD bible.
Best place would be the 350 board on https://www.rzrd500.com or if you understand German forum.rd350lc.de

I published the maintenance manual here:
https://www.rd350lc.de/downloads/MK-Dok ... Seiten.pdf
Bye
Martin
gtecomp
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:21 pm

Re: New VTR rider..project

Post by gtecomp »

Thanks Martin. I really appreciate this !!!
MK_WF
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Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:02 pm
Location: Wolfenbuettel/Germany
Contact:

Re: New VTR rider..project

Post by MK_WF »

You're welcome.
I'd appreciate getting msq-files, if you happen to use a Megasquirt.
You'll never know, if I'll be up to EFI'ing my VTR, too, when I'm a pensioner...
Bye
Martin
gtecomp
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:21 pm

Re: New VTR rider..project

Post by gtecomp »

Hello Martin,

Today receive the ECU, it's MaxxECU Mni??? I think(it's a Swedish brand ...probably cheapest on market). I have bad experiance with Mega in the past, especially with reading VR sensors. For my previous EFI project I use Link, which is bulletproof stand alone. I have expiriance with V-pec, KMS, Haltech Mega, but the price of 500 Euro for MaxxECU including connector and 1m wiring, is unbeatable.

Found another problem with the Varadero TB. Idle motor (that one that I was so happy)is actually stepper motor....which is a problem and most of the ECU's, don't support those. Probably I will change it to some solenoid from tank evaporating system of some car. But this is the future...tomorrow , the connectors for coils will come I can start with ECU wiring
MK_WF
Posts: 130
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:02 pm
Location: Wolfenbuettel/Germany
Contact:

Re: New VTR rider..project

Post by MK_WF »

On the EFI RD I'm using Yamaha R6 throttle bodies.
These don't have any idle regulation systems except an adjuster screw for the butterfly position.

There is a "choke" which simply opens an additional air passage.
At first I started to block/open this passage with RGV250 air solenoid valves, but in my case it turned out that it wasn't needed at all. Idle was stable enough without any additional circuit.

Maybe you should try, if the VTR would work without an idle adjustment circuit, too?
If not, you still could add switched air bypasses or adapted ignition maps.
Bye
Martin
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