Battery not charging *Update* Job Done - Bottom of Page 2

[Tempest]

My Firestorm was fine (started ok from a quick prod on the starter button)

Just in the last few days (not ridden much) someone odd happened.

Few days ago, went for a 30 mile run, came back, stopped the bike, then tried to restart again (seconds later) Would not start, as if battery flat. Just about turned over a few times and gave up.

Odd, I thought. Never done that before in the few weeks I've had the bike.

(Still enough power to power headlight etc)

Took battery out and put it on my VERY slow trickle charger (the type that you can leave the battery on ALL the time (over winter if needed)

Anyway, I left it on for 2 days, the charger light went off, meaning battery full.

Put battery in bike, WROOOM, started instantly

Went for about a 20 mile run, came back, parked bike in garage overnight.

Next day, got ready to go out, pressed starter. Battery almost dead again!

Ehhhhh? What's going on? Battery was charged up, then nice run = it should be all tip top and raring to go.

The only thing I've done to the bike recently was change rear sprocket (nothing to do with battery)

Put the clipons back on (may a wire have got pulled out)

And cleaned with engine cleaner and water around the engine sides and around the starter motor (split in rubber cover on the connector)

I did wonder if these was damp/corrosion on the connection to the starter motor. So had the connector off, cleaned all the contacts and back together again.

I'm just thinking it must be something I've done whilst cleaning (or pulled out when fiddling getting clipons back on)

Though, the clipons were changed over for a week and all was ok. It's just since the cleaning this has happened.

From the above. Is there anything, that would suddenly cause the battery not to get charged by the bike and/or drain for no apparent reason?

As I said it's been fine until just a few days ago.

Bike is back on trickle charge now. So not sure if my cleaning the started motor contacts up will have done anything.

Any wires/connectors to check?
Any fuses to check?

It's didn't gradually get worse, it's just happened suddenly.

[Tempest]

Just an after thought comment (having read some other posts)

After my 30 min run yesterday (when I thought my battery SHOULD have been lovely and still charged up for today)

I got back home, and noticed a strange smell coming from somewhere on the bike.

Could not quite place where it was coming from, but around the back of the seat area (no jokes please!) seemed to be the main place of the smell.

Having read some other posts (on american site) you think this may be my battery being cooked by the regulator?

Ways of checking?

Can I use a volt meter, and where?

Or perhaps the smell was just the rectifier/regulator heatsink getting hot and doing it's job.

After it's charged (tomorrow) if I go for a quick run, come back home. Is there anything I should immeditly check for (to perhaps identify the problem area?)

Thanks

[sirch345]

It sounds like the typical voltage regulator/rectifier has packed up

If it has you don't want to be riding it as your battery could get fried then that will need replacing as well

To test, connect your volt meter to the battery terminals under the seat without the engine running you should have approx 12volts, with the engine started and charging (may need to rev engine a little for that) it should increase to approx 14volts then switch on headlights and the voltage should drop back to approx 13volts.

Chris.

[cupasoop]

Sounds like the rectum frier is goosed. Dont go out riding again till you've checked it or you'll have more than a funny smell to deal with, like cooked electrics. Put a meter across the battery, should be 12v not running and 13 or 14 running. Have a search in the workshop, the proper values have been mentioned a few times before.

If it it the rectum frier, get onto ebay and pick up a r6 or r1 one, vast improvement over hondas shockingly bad effort. Theres an excellent write up on how to fit the yamaha one at the top of the workshop section, nothing more than snipping off the connector block and soldering on spade connectors.

[Rincewind]

theres you go.....


http://www.vlc.com.au/~justin/about/bik ... place.html

[Tempest]

Thanks to you BOTH for the advice.

Afraid as I'm not a mechanic, I need BASIC advice with idiot guides to doing things

Mat at work is going to lend me the volt meter tomorow, and by then the battery should have enough juice again to fire up the bike.

Will check for the voltages you quoted.

If it's the rectifier that's wrong, will it be Higher or Lower than those figures?

One other thing that puzzles me:

1: Charge battery
2: Go for a 30 mile ride
3: get home, and bike in garage overnight.
4: next day, battery lost all it's guts and can barely turn engine over.

If it IS the rectifier, does this not only not charge the battery, but also sucks power OUT of the battery?

I can appreciate it's not getting charged, but why should all it's juice go over 24 hours?

I don't really expect the battery as I'm my experience (with cars) batteries gradually get worse. They don't work fine, then suddenly go like this.

[cupasoop]

The rectifier regulates the how much power gets into the battery and electrical system from the charging side of things. If it goes it lets far to much power through and starts to cook things. Sounds like your battery has came a cropper. It's not that your battery isnt getting a charge, it's getting far too much charge.

[Tempest]

The rectifier regulates the how much power gets into the battery and electrical system from the charging side of things. If it goes it lets far to much power through and starts to cook things. Sounds like your battery has came a cropper. It's not that your battery isnt getting a charge, it's getting far too much charge.

Ok. Well, I'm going to do the voltage check after work tomorrow and will report back here with the results

As I said, I have cleaned the starter motor contacts due to the 2nd posting down here:
http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB2/viewtopic ... ht=battery

Again, thanks for the advice.

[Tempest]

Quick Update:

Could not resist a look, so just been outside (11:15pm) and taken the tail piece off the bike so I could take a look at the rectifier.

Found this:





And Closer:




Methinks, this may be the odd burning smell I could detect after my run yesterday.

Just as a following question.........

I assume the above did not just happen overnight, so is there anything else that would cause this to happen?

Also I shall still check the voltage, as "Perhaps" even though this is a bit crispy with an apparent hole burned in the casing, it COULD still be working correctly?

[cupasoop]

Methinks, this may be the odd burning smell I could detect after my run yesterday.

Just as a following question.........

I assume the above did not just happen overnight, so is there anything else that would cause this to happen?

Also I shall still check the voltage, as "Perhaps" even though this is a bit crispy with an apparent hole burned in the casing, it COULD still be working correctly?

All honda retifiers are crap. Storms, blackbirds, vfrs, etc all burn out. Theres no way for the heat they produce to dissipate properly and they cook themselfs. Really bad design. Get onto ebay or a breakers and get an r6 or r1 rectifier, you can pick one up for £10 or £20.

DO NOT START THE BIKE till you've fixed this or else you could be looking at more than a battery and a regtifier to replace.

[Tempest]

Cheers for the advice again

I had a fight with it this morning to get the plug off it. Had to use a wood chisel in the end!

Broke the black plastic from around the white plug, and after much swearing at is, finally managed to prize it away.

The RED wire connector actually pulled out from the regulator. Looks burned onto the spade joint.

I've dug that hole out now and it's all burnt to buggery in there.

Yep as you say I'm not starting the bike until it's replaced.

I have a voltmeter from work and I'm going to check all the other values off the cables.

also test battery, just hope that's ok still.

Can't find any rectifiers for as cheap as you say.

[Rincewind]

try ebay, theres a few on there now

[Tempest]

Well, used work mates Multimeter this evening and tested all the things the manual says to test. (Wires to each other and wires to ground kinda stuff)

All seems to give the correct readings which is good news (nothing shorted out)

Only thing not done is battery check (as it's still on trickle charge) and or course engine running voltage test at battery terminals as I can't run due to regulator being no more.

Just a bit lost which one to go for on Ebay.

There's a NEW design honda firestorm one (with fins now) which will just bolt straight on. Or I can get a Yamaha one R6 perhaps.

I managed to save the spade connectors on the 3 yellow wires that plug into the regulator and thay all seem fine.
The green and red wires I had to cut off as they were burned. (esp red one)

Just wondering which to get.

R6 one here:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GENUINE-YAMAHA-YZ ... dZViewItem

New type Firestorm one:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Honda-VTR-Firesto ... dZViewItem

[cupasoop]

Wouldnt get either of them at those prices, shocking

Heres one that finished last week http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/YAMAHA-YZF-R1-98- ... dZViewItem

And heres one with a couple of days to go http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/YAMAHA-YZF-R1-98- ... dZViewItem

You'll need to solder on new spade connectors anyway so go for the yamaha one, they dont break.

[Tempest]

Wouldnt get either of them at those prices, shocking

Heres one that finished last week http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/YAMAHA-YZF-R1-98- ... dZViewItem

And heres one with a couple of days to go http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/YAMAHA-YZF-R1-98- ... dZViewItem

You'll need to solder on new spade connectors anyway so go for the yamaha one, they dont break.

Thanks.
I did see those, but I guess I fancied something that looked new and shiny

The Red and Green Spade connectors are heavier duty ones (wider) and I'll see my mate as he has lots of this stuff (for work) and has a nice tool for crimping them correctly (not the cheepo squashy pliers that I have)

Just a pain when you want something NOW but the buy it now ones are all expensive and the cheap ones have ages to go

Hopefully be back on the road within the week.