Interesting reading IMO!

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sirch345
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Interesting reading IMO!

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Last edited by sirch345 on Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Stratman
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Post by Stratman »

Can't open the link Chris - what was it about and I'll try to get it manually. Sounds like my sex life. :cry:
Two bikes, still only four cylinders!

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sirch345
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Post by sirch345 »

Stratman wrote:Can't open the link Chris - what was it about and I'll try to get it manually. Sounds like my sex life. :cry:
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Hi Paul, I don't know why the link didn't work for you :!: Anyway I'll post the main part, obviously there are replies and further post from this opinion of Vifferman who I think was a member or still is on here :!:

Chris.

vifferman
28th July 2004, 13:20
Yeah, I know this has already been semi-reviewed by wkid-one, but I'm bored at work. So here goes...

History
The VTR1000 was released in 1997 (my model's year), presumably in response to the success of the Ducati 900 SS. Unfortunately, the Suzuki TL1000S was released at the same time, stealing much of Honda's thunder.
The VTR was mainly developed in the US, probably due to the popularity of the Honda Hawk, which was a 650cc v-twin with a single-sided swingarm and alloy perimeter frame. The prototype SuperHawk bears a distinct resemblance to this model, but (fortunately) the production model was slightly different and less stodgy looking.

Innovations
Compared to the TL1000, the Honda is somewhat middle-of-the-road, lacking the EFI, USD forks and (fortunately) the rotary damper rear suspension. It also has an engine in a lower state of tune (~100HP compared to the Suzi's ~125), and slightly tamer steering dynamics: slightly longer wheelbase, less steep caster angle, slightly more trail, but some would argue this makes it easier to ride. It certainly has a reputation as a good all-rounder, compared to the 'hooligan' TL.
Some firsts on the VTR included pannier-mounted dual radiators (also found on the VFR800), engine-case mounted swingarm pivots, the largest valves fitted to a Honda engine, and the largest carbs.

Updates
The VTR has been in production virtually unchanged since 1997, which sort of goes against Honda's normal policy of regular model changes every 4 years. In 2001, it did get a larger tank (up 3 litres to 19l), revised handlebar geometry (more on that later), a semi-digital dash, minor revision of the front suspension, better security, and few other unimportant cosmetic changes. In response to market pressures (and the RC45 being whipped by the Ducati in WSB), the SP1 (RC51 in US market) was released to provide a bike for production racing.

The ride
The Firestorm is an easy bike to ride, having no particular vices. It will pop the front wheel in the air on acceleration, but is not especially prone to headshake (and therefore tank-slappers), due to the aforementioned moderate steering geometry. All is not bliss, however, as it has less than perfect ergonomics, with a stretch to the 'bars, odd clip-on angle and a seat that becomes rather brick-like on long rides. It is also rather overgeared, and cruising at 100 km/h feels more comfortable in 4th gear than in 6th. However, this long-leggedness makes it a very relaxed tourer, as it never seems particularly busy, and is happy to be short-shifted at the torque peak rather than revved out through the gears.
When pushed, the "tuned flex" frame (due to the engine-mounted swingarm, which is a bit lightweight) can be felt working, but it's interesting rather than alarming...
The half-fairing gives pretty reasonable wind protection, although fitting an aftermarket screen blade is popular. Apart from not being tinted like the one on my VFR, I actually like the screen on mine, as the wind blast hits me high in the chest, taking some weight off my wrists. Being lower compared to the VFR, it also results in less wind noise. However, the first time I rode a VTR (in '97), I noted that this also directs wind down your front, if your jacket collar isn't fastened. Good in summer, I guess, as long as there's no bees innit....
Another problem is the suspension is definitely on the budget side, having only preload and rebound adjustment at both ends (no compression damping adjustment). Furthermore, the front end is undersprung and the back oversprung for the average rider. (Doesn't bother me much, as I'm below average :D ).
As standard, the brakes are marginal, as the front feels a bit spongey, and the brake brake is wooden and next to useless (made up for by excellent engine-braking).
Fuel range is pathetic; commuting mine does less than 30 mpg, and I'm lucky to get 125km before the Red Light Of Doom glares at me.
Gear changes are typical Honda, with a clunk into second gear (avoidable by clutchless shifting or changing while under power or at high revs), and false neutrals on high-kilometerage examples. Gear ratios are fine, apart from overall gearing being way too high.

Reliability
The VTR is generally fairly worry-free, more reliable than Ducatis (if uglier) but does have a few weaknesses.

Camchain tensioner - I dunno why Honda doesn't fit all of its bikes with gear-driven cams, because they're crap at camchains. The VTR can lunch an automatic tensioner spring in as few as 6000 km, probably due to chain whip, and the excessive back-pressure caused by engine-braking. The front cylinder is most prone to this, with the usual result being that the camchain jumps the camwheel and the valves and piston 'catastrophically interfere with another' (i.e., :buggerd: )
Wreck-you-later/Rectumfrier - this is too small, and put in a dumb position (too hot). Could last 10 years or 1 (mine lasted 6 or so).
Clutch - sometimes prone to slipping and/or grabbing. And squealing like a stuck pig. Easily fixed by fitting Barnett springs, or by not doing hard takeoffs. The slave cylinder seal sometimes leaks if not maintained.
Other issues are not peculiar to VTRs or to Hondas, so not worth mentioning. For example, V-twins use a bit of oil, apparently. (Saves it getting dirty, I guess...)

Mods
Here are some of the current mods made to my bike, and the reasons for 'em.

American Performance Engineering manual camchain tensioners: Honda tensioners are crap, and my engine had already eaten one pair of valves before I bought it.
New Throttle Postion Sensor (TPS): The TPS has a bakelite (plastic) body, and is not too hard to break if not aligned properly when reassembling the carbs. I broke mine when adjusting the TPS to the recommended value (considerably different to stock). :doh:
Mufflers bafflectomied and plugged: The mufflers had been vandalised when I bought the bike, and were VERY LOUD!! I had some plugs made to quieten them down a lot and make 'em look standard. Still sounds OK, with a lurvly rumble on deceleration.
Dynojet kit: Bafflectomy made the carburetion too lean.
Custom Unifilter: Cheaper than stock airfilter, flows more air,easily maintained.
Shimmed needles: See two previous items.
New beefier R/R: OEM one failed, and was too wussy, so I replaced it with a heavy-duty one and rewired the charging system to eliminate plugs.
90/130W headlight: Stock one too wussy.
GenMar handlebar risers: I have arthritic joints, and the standard clip-ons are too low, putting too much weight on my wrists around town. These raise the 'bars 19mm - just right.
15-tooth countershaft sprocket: Standard gearing is too high, especially commuting. This gives heaps more apparent torque (and apparent speed...) It also accelerates chain wear, so next chain/sprocket change I'll put a 16T back on and a 43T rear instead.
Shortened drivechain: The 15T sprocket meant the wheelbase was longer, and I was nearly out of chain adjustment. Taking two links out shortened the wheelbase a lot, meaning that in conjunction with the sprocket, wheelies are more common. Ooops....
Braided brakelines (X2): Improved feel of the front brakes, and made bleeding easier (OEM lines have a junction and rise where bubbles gather).
No back mudguard: Looks?!? (I didn't do it, and my back gets sprayed with sh1t when it rains).
Fork tubes raised through the stanchions, for improved steering response (shortened wheelbase helps this too).
Fitted voltmeter/clock/laptimer: To monitor the ergs and the passage of time.
Future Probable Mods
Santa (or is that Satan?!?), could you please bring me (because my wife won't let me have them):
- A hugger rear guard, to keep the crap off my boots and rear shock and bag.
- New fork springs
- An Ohlins rear shock (dream on!!)
- A pair of aftermarket cans (Micron?): summat that sounds noisy and nice, but which are still legal :shifty:
- A modified seat (one with foam instead of wood).

Summary
A nice all-rounder; not the best or most powerful I've ridden, but plenty of fun, and with enough character to stop me getting bored. Certainly good value for money, and with a few mods, a pretty good ride.
This is the sixth bike I've owned, and I've had it almost a year. During that time it's been used for almost daily commuting, with only a couple of longish rides. It's let me down only a few times: when the R/R (and battery) died, when I ran out of gas, and when I punctured the (new) rear tyre.
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Post by RedStormV »

Found this while searching.

Worth another airing seeing as there's lots of newbies since this was posted, not least of all, myself!

Graeme.

*
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Post by sirch345 »

Well Graeme I thought I was seeing things :lol: I was thinking I don't remember posting that, well that was until I saw the date :!: :lol:

Chris.
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Post by RedStormV »

Just over a year old ... allmost to the day :lol:

Been looking for various bits of knowledge I'm sure will be on here somewhere.

In the process came across this and other 'Gems' which unfortunately seem to get lost in the mists of time.

Graeme.
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Post by yanto »

make a gems sticky
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Post by lee67 »

good read that...having just come from owning a tl1000..3 weeks ago, i can concur, that the vtr is tame compared to the tl...never had issues with the rotary damper, but id imagine with ohlins fitted, it would transform the bike, as it does to most bikes...theres things i miss, about the tl...grunt..comfort..smoothness..but so far im enjoying the storm...handles better just, alltho the fireblade forks help there....engine braking is more fierce on the storm, easy to maintain/service..tl was a bitch....things i dont like,..comfort..alltho not bad, tank range..but im ready for a break nowadays at 100miles ...worst thing to me, is the farts and coughs..apparently they all do it..im sure a vtr with fuel injection would be great..oh wait they do..sp1/2...now wheres me chequebook :wink:
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Post by RedStormV »

Chris, can you still edit the post to make it a 'Sticky'?
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Post by Jaglifter »

Lee, I think Honda set a new standard for farts and coughs when they made the SP1. While IMHO its a better bike than the Firestorm in many respects, smooth running isn't one of em.
She's my idea of beauty and thats what I ride.
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Post by lee67 »

tl was like that too....untill i fitted a tre'...timing retard eliminator, went from walking a big dog..to as smooth as silk...surely an sp1/2 just needs a tre..also tl's were known to throw the tps reg...set mine ( it was way out ) and that helped too...alltho i see the storm has a tps....might check that too
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Post by solorider »

lee67 wrote:tl was like that too....untill i fitted a tre'...timing retard eliminator, went from walking a big dog..to as smooth as silk...surely an sp1/2 just needs a tre..also tl's were known to throw the tps reg...set mine ( it was way out ) and that helped too...alltho i see the storm has a tps....might check that too
what happens to the way the bike runs when the tps goes wrong?
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Post by sirch345 »

RedStormV wrote:Chris, can you still edit the post to make it a 'Sticky'?
No problem Graeme :!:

Sorted :!:

Chris.
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Post by lee67 »

an incorrectly set tps sensor, will make the bike hesitant and unsmooth...similar to balancing the carbs/ or resetting a fuel injected ecu...made a diff to tl..will give it a go and report back :wink:
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Post by Frontslide »

How do you set the tps on these? 8)
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