Brake Upgrade (SP1 Master vs. Caliper replacement)

pmcq · Post by **pmcq** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:50 pm

Hello all,
I am seriously thinking of doing a job on my front brakes as they are utter shite. I am just wondering what the best approach is - should I leave the existing calipers and buy an SP1 master cylinder or try and get my hands on a set of Blade calipers off Ebay? I am guessing that there would be more chance of picking up used calipers as opposed to the master cylinder? Would there me much difference in the braking? I fitted braided hoses last year but they made little difference but I reckon they will come into play when the rest is upgraded.
Cheers!

alan · Post by **alan** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:17 pm

You could fit the 929 master cylinder (i think its the same as sp1) thats a bigger ratio than stock and there is a couple on ebay now at 35 quid.You could fit gsxr calipers which bolt straight in or 929 but you will need to do a little bit of fettling to make them bolt up,easy job to do.Change to some decent pads fresh fluid stoppies galore with the above setup.

I'm using 929 calipers on 929 discs hel lines with standard master cylinder ebc hh pads and can stop on a rock hair!!!! but will be upgrading master cylinder myself.

Stratman · Post by **Stratman** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 11:11 am

I've EBC discs and Sintered pads with braided hoses and I think the brakes are fine now. Originally, left much to be desired! Have you simply tried leaving a cable tie on the brake lever overnight to get air out? Its amazing what a difference this can make.

Stormin Ben · Post by **Stormin Ben** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 9:49 pm

alan wrote: . . and can stop on a rock hair!!!!

Bet you couldn't stop one one of mine!!
Have to find one first

PCMQ,
FWIW I don't see the need to change any of the standard components to get sorted brakes

Remove the calipers and give the pistons a really good clean
Fit braided lines
Replace pads with something decent (personal preference Carbone Lorrain A3's NB not SBK3's)
Bleed properly

Bear in mind that swapping to a larger bore master cylinder will give you more power (one fingered stoppies anyone?) but at the expense of feel
Very little lever movement is the difference between fully off and fully on

alan · Post by **alan** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:44 pm

Is that by choice Ben or nature

Stratman · Post by **Stratman** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:29 am

Too much detail already!

Squiffythewombat · Post by **Squiffythewombat** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 6:42 pm

Stratman wrote: Have you simply tried leaving a cable tie on the brake lever overnight to get air out? Its amazing what a difference this can make.

Was given that tip a few years back and it really does work, one of the best tips ive ever been given i think! so simple but so effective

.....oooo and Ben, i really worry about you sometimes!

pmcq · Post by **pmcq** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:29 am

Thanks for the responses guys.

Quote wrote:Very little lever movement is the difference between fully off and fully on

Well thats the thing - I reckon have too much movement in the lever. My mate with his R1 nearly ended up in a ditch the first time he went to use my brakes

I have used the R1 brakes and they are amazing.

I guess I'll start with bleeding and cable-tying the lever. How does this work then - does this make the air bubble its way up to the top or something before bleeding? Has anyone just done the Sp1/929 master cylinder swap with original calipers?

Stormin Ben · Post by **Stormin Ben** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:59 am

PMCQ
I've ridden one with just the SP1 master cylinder upgrade and EBC-HH's and TBH it was too fierce
I do use the front brake in corners from time to time so feel is majorly important and to my mind it was lacking with that setup

I'm running braided hoses and Carbone Lorraine A3 pads on an otherwise standard setup
The lever is set on minimum span and still doesn't come anywhere near the bar

If you've got excessive lever travel then either
there's air in the system (are you running standard lines with the splitter?)
there's water in the fluid
the pistons are sticking
the brake lines are bulging (old rubber hoses?)
coz if its in decent nick the travel should be negligible

Alan,
Its by choice(ish) mate
I suggested doing the wifes and she said it would be too itchy and she'd only let me if I had mine done too
So I called her bluff!!

Post by **sirch345** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:09 pm

Stormin Ben wrote:
Alan,
Its by choice(ish) mate
I suggested doing the wifes and she said it would be too itchy and she'd only let me if I had mine done too
So I called her bluff!!

PML

Excellent Ben

pmcq · Post by **pmcq** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:15 am

Cheers Ben!

Zer0Zer0 · Post by **Zer0Zer0** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:31 pm

i put gixxer calipers and the sp1 master cylinder on mine last year..
and as ben said Fierce is the word ..and i like them, but i think if i ever use them in a corner im off[again]..but i really thought the standard ones were poor ..

LotusSevenMan · Post by **LotusSevenMan** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:33 pm

I think Bens reply threw us 'off the scent' (Oy, don't go there... I wouldn't

).
So what is this cable tie overnighter then please? I'd rather have graphic details of this than Ben's bluff ha ha!

pmcq · Post by **pmcq** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:23 pm

Hehe.... Actually I tried the overnight thing last week and it works! Lever feels better - but I would say now would be the time to do a bleed just to make sure they dont return to sponge mode.

Fireman on a Storm · Post by **Fireman on a Storm** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:05 pm

LotusSevenMan wrote:I think Bens reply threw us 'off the scent' (Oy, don't go there... I wouldn't ).
So what is this cable tie overnighter then please? I'd rather have graphic details of this than Ben's bluff ha ha!

Use a cable tie to pull the front brake lever in. Just like applying a firm handful of brake.
Leave it over night. The brake system will be under pressure. Any air bubbles in the system will be under pressure and rise through the brake pipes into the master cylinder.
Take the cable tie off the next day, pump the lever a couple of times. You will then have a firm brake feel. This is a cheats way of getting the last bit of air out of the system that you seem to struggle with when bleeding with the rubber bleed hose.

Paul