Water pump oil seal

[Opel]

Hi. My storm leaves a (very) little drip of oil to mark its territory. I’ve tracked it down to be emanating from the water pump drain hose. Considering it is most definitely oil, can I safely assume that all I need to replace is the oil seal 91201-965-000 and not the oil seal ‘mechanical’ 19217-MAL-000 ? The reason I ask is that the latter item is £55 plus from Dave’s emporium!!!
I assume you have to remove the expensive seal to get at the ‘other’ oil seal… so does the expensive one come out without having to persuade it, to such an extent that it ‘gets bent’ out of shape, therefore rendering it fit only for the bin?

Many thanks to anyone who can answer…

[tony.mon]

No, it'll be the mechanical seal.
That keeps oil in the engine and stops it leaking into the water pump chamber.
The O-ring is to seal the water pump casing onto the crankcase and hold water in.
If you're getting a leak from the overflow tube, it should only be water.
If it's oil, you'll have oil in the coolant, which is indicative of a much worse problem.

Try taping a small receptacle around the end of the overflow pipe, held on with tape or a rubber band, and see what actually collects.

[Opel]

Many thanks for the reply.

I think that I’ve misled you there, but it’s beyond my abilities to explain, I’ll have it to bits and have a look.

However, prior to having it all to bits, I gather (from the Haynes manual) that the drain somehow operates from between the mechanical seal (which impedes water travel from the pump, back behind the impeller into the 'crank case') and the oil seal on the pump shaft—located in front of the rhs engine/clutch cover bearing. Therefore, from the drain… water indicates mechanical seal failure and oil suggests an ‘oil seal’ issue. The Honda manual seems to suggest a similar diagnosis from what I recall, but that’s on my other PC and I’ve not a copy on here to confirm.

The long and the short of it all is that I didn’t want to fork out +£55 for the mechanical seal… you know the score.

Anyway time will tell, either way it’s yet more expense and aggravation, it’d be nice just to be able to ride and enjoy!Oh and the other 'arf is beginning to get suspicious
(£50= a midlands wide any time any place monthly pass on the bus... which looks appealing when one considers time+effort+fresh oil+etc.etc.)

[Wicky]

Someone in the US is selling OEM seals/gaskets might be cheaper even with postage if you check

http://www.superhawkforum.com/forums/cl ... ets-26449/

[AMCQ46]

While we are in looking the water pump, you could help answer a question for me.

I have the clutch side cover off my spare engine and noticed that the water pump shaft is fairly stiff to turn. Is that normal (as a result of these seals) or is it a duff bearing?

Thanks, and I hope it is just the cheap seal

[tony.mon]

AMcQ- Yes, they're often quite stiff to turn.

Lots of people will have a scraped/scratched/damaged crankcase cover, clutch side, because they hit the floor first when you drop one on its RH side.
The impeller won't be damaged though, so it can be transplanted into your one.

[Opel]

While we are in looking the water pump, you could help answer a question for me.

I have the clutch side cover off my spare engine and noticed that the water pump shaft is fairly stiff to turn. Is that normal (as a result of these seals) or is it a duff bearing?

Thanks, and I hope it is just the cheap seal

After having disassembled, I can confirm that mine is also 'quite stiff to turn' and the bike hasn't been dropped on the casing thus no mechanical damage to shaft, bearing or impeller present.

[AMCQ46]

great thanks guys, was worried that spare engine had sat with that bearing dry for too long, and this was going to be a problem when that needed fixed.

I will have the clutch off my main engine in the next weeks so will be able to compare side by side then.

[tony.mon]

If you have a look at the part there is a quite stiff spring pushing the ceramic seal against the face of the casting, and this explains the resistance and friction.
It would also explain how an electric water pump gives a small rise in bhp.

Mmmmmm, haven't done that yet.....

[Opel]

Well that little exercise turned out to be a right pain! I ended up having to take the casing down to my local independent to press out (then in)the impeller shaft because you need the strength of ten thousand lizards or balls of steel to wield a big hammer.

It didn’t start out too well either, because three out of the four bolts holding the water pump cover on were seized and the usual happened… yes one snapped, leaving me with the exercise of trying to remove it, failing and then drilling and tapping. Oh and Honda don’t have any of those particular bolts in Europe, let alone the UK. All was not though because my man had some stainless ones which, incidentally, he didn’t charge me for. Top man really because he only stung me for half an hour’s labour.

I am too annoyed to tot it all up, but due to the state of the impeller shaft etc. etc., I ended replacing everything…

I can't see why the impeller complete with shaft costs £35 and yet the mechanical seal costs £55? There must be some far eastern logic there somewhere...





Tax and MOTs due now...

[tony.mon]

I found that the big hammer approach using a thick piece of plywood against the splined end of the shaft was ok, I've replaced a couple now without issues.
Plus removing and then replacing one of my own when I had the case powder coated.