full clutch basket swap

[sirch345]

Two thoughts on this Chris
1. The pushrod that runs through the engine from the slave cylinder through to the clutch is directly in line with the chain. Chain lube gets flung off onto it
Try removing it and giving it a good clean in paraffin or similar

2. Mine was quite grabby on reasonably brisk launches. I fitted heavier springs and while it was apart I set to the clutch basket with a fine file.
Over time the plates can wear a notch / indent in the face. This then causes the plates to stick a little bit rather than engage freely.
Filing this completely cured the problem

Thanks Ben for that reply mate.
I must admit the clutch push rod sticking is a good thought as that would give a delayed reaction, that's one idea that had slipped my mind. I normally keep on top of these things, but it's worth checking I agree, as it's probably been longer than I think since I last cleaned that area up, including the push rod. I'll try that first.

Chris.

[AMCQ46]

OK problem solved, spoke to the guy who had the engine before, and he had a race clutch in it when he used the engine and swapped it over before he sold it to me. The bolt should not be there, it should have been removed after the clutch basket was refitted, it is how you stop the damper gear springing apart when you remove the clutch.

[tony.mon]

You can remove the damper gear without any problems, or particular engine noises.

Benny didn't believe me either.....

[AMCQ46]

Ok, busy day today, and managed to do the clutch swap and a few other jobs

Was getting a bit dark by the time I finished so only went out for a 10mile test drive, but I can report that the clutch screech and grab is fixed. I now have a normal clutch that I can slip at all throttle openings

BeforE I fitted them, I had them both on the bench and they both looked to be in the same condition, if anything the ome from my bike looked better...except for 1 part, the top hat the goes between the pushrods and the clutch release bearing.
The one on my bike had lots of signs of scuffing on it's main diameter were it fits inside the main shaft.





Is this a new clue?

[Kev L]

Well done on narrowing it down Al. And as a bonus your posts now match your year of birth!!!!!

[AMCQ46]

I even had to scroll up to check! b8stard....

[sirch345]

Well found Alastair that would certainly explain the screech bit.
After all the searching and head scratching you and Tony Mon had done on finding the cause, I bet you could hardly believe it

Any ideas on why that should have been happening as I am sure steel running against steel should not be the norm

Ben,
I checked the push rod for signs of it needing a good clean, but there was very little chain lube on it. That's probably because, since giving that area a good clean last time I have been using a Scoot oiler. Worth a check though I agree. At least I can rule that one out now.

Chris.

[AMCQ46]

Chris,
Not sure on the mechanism that is causing the scuff marks, but clearly the actuating top hat should not be making violent contact with the output shaft, but in my head I am not yet clear if it is the cause of the grabbing, or is it a side effect of the grabbing??.

you could imagine that if the tophat is touching the output shaft it will start to move independently of the pushrod, but to release the clutch it would have to move in against the pushrod, and that is not so easy to imagine how it does that.

perhaps there is a runout or vibration that makes the tophat run eccentirc in the output shaft when the grabbing happenns, and this caused the tophat to touch the shaft at the same time.

need to spend some time looking at the parts, but if anyone else has a clutch in bits on the bench, it would be good to see if they have scuffing, and if they had clutch grab . then we can try and make a statistical link between the two.

Benny, Tony, can you have a look and see if your swaps show any similar issues?

[tony.mon]

Will do at the weekend, all of my spare clutches are in an unlit shed.
I have four or five off the bike, and another two in engines in the garage, plus the one on my bike.
So hopefully I can find some correlation....

[AMCQ46]

Will do at the weekend, all of my spare clutches are in an unlit shed.
I have four or five off the bike, and another two in engines in the garage, plus the one on my bike.
So hopefully I can find some correlation....

cheers mate, no rush,........ dont want you stumbling round your shed with a candle and then falling and breaking your hip

[sirch345]

Chris,
Not sure on the mechanism that is causing the scuff marks, but clearly the actuating top hat should not be making violent contact with the output shaft, but in my head I am not yet clear if it is the cause of the grabbing, or is it a side effect of the grabbing??.

you could imagine that if the tophat is touching the output shaft it will start to move independently of the pushrod, but to release the clutch it would have to move in against the pushrod, and that is not so easy to imagine how it does that.

perhaps there is a runout or vibration that makes the tophat run eccentirc in the output shaft when the grabbing happenns, and this caused the tophat to touch the shaft at the same time.

need to spend some time looking at the parts, but if anyone else has a clutch in bits on the bench, it would be good to see if they have scuffing, and if they had clutch grab . then we can try and make a statistical link between the two.

Benny, Tony, can you have a look and see if your swaps show any similar issues?

Alastair, I appreciate what you are getting at, at least it certainly appears you have narrowed it down to something wrong in the old clutch itself, so a good idea to get anyone with a spare to have a look.

Has this new clutch made any difference to the vibration you were trying to cure

Will do at the weekend, all of my spare clutches are in an unlit shed.
I have four or five off the bike, and another two in engines in the garage, plus the one on my bike.
So hopefully I can find some correlation....

Good man Tony

Chris.

[AMCQ46]

[Has this new clutch made any difference to the vibration you were trying to cure

I think it is a bit better but not gone away, and I also went back to race pipes so that has also had a positive effect on vibration.

I need to do some miles on a M-way to see how the fingers feel as the main test, but only havd a couple of back road sprints since I did the clutch, and they were never a problem before

[sirch345]

[Has this new clutch made any difference to the vibration you were trying to cure

I think it is a bit better but not gone away, and I also went back to race pipes so that has also had a positive effect on vibration.

I need to do some miles on a M-way to see how the fingers feel as the main test, but only havd a couple of back road sprints since I did the clutch, and they were never a problem before

So it could just be the race pipes and nothing to do with the clutch swap. When you do give it a real test out on the m/way, do let us know if it has gone.

Chris.