God bless the land of the free!

[grumpyfrog]

Gettin a bit heated in here is it not- bloke was probable complaining about the fact his burger looks nought like that shown on the picture alla Mr Douglas...
Should have gone to burger king anyway!! (other hot food outlets are also available )
Going back a few posts- can you tell me how the pro smokers are getting on- I thought that it was almost a stoneing offence to be caught in the act over there? christ does that mean that stones will now be banned too

[Stratman]

People will use the tools that are available to them. There's no question that there is more gun crime here, where guns are easily obtainable. Obviously, if all the guns were to suddenly disappear, so would gun crime. How does that help our unfortunate friend at McDonalds? Guns are tools. The crimes will continue, with or without them.

There are many tools in the world.

[Wicky]

Or beat them with a bat.

Just heard this morning about a moron who freaked out in a McDonalds, went out to his car, got a baseball bat, came back in and bashed in the head of the manager, and then left, using his t-shirt to grab things so as not to leave fingerprints, he knew what he was doing. Now, do those of you who think guns are evil think baseball bats should be banned too? Do you think this manager, deserved to have his brains bashed in?

Is this the story? http://newsone.com/2004049/man-beats-mc ... eball-bat/

The manager was treated at a local hospital and is expected to recover from his injuries.
The bat-swinging assailant has yet to be caught.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/2 ... 48527.html

He then left the McDonald's, leaving the manager with bruised ribs.

Would you shoot him on sight vigilante style? as that is currently a bit controversial as a way of dealing with folk you perceive as 'dangerous' i.e. George Zimmerman

and this... Florida Man Mistakes Girlfriend for a Hog, Shoots Her

http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/fl ... ories.html

Is an eyesight test mandatory when getting a gun licence?

[marravtr]

Would you shoot him on sight vigilante style? as that is currently a bit controversial as a way of dealing with folk you perceive as 'dangerous' i.e. George Zimmerman

and this... Florida Man Mistakes Girlfriend for a Hog, Shoots Herhttp://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/fl ... ories.html

Is an eyesight test mandatory when getting a gun licence?

wish i'd av done that instead of marrying the bitch!

[rz_racer_69]

My story was a bit of an embellishment on the actual story to get my point across. Yes in this case the victim lived. That is not always the case. If I had been there and seen the attack, I would have tried to stop it. If I had feared for my or the victim's life, I wouldn't hesitate to use deadly force as a last result to stop the threat. If the only means of deadly force was a fork, that would have to do. But no, I wouldn't shoot him on sight because he walked into a McDonald's with a baseball bat, lol. You can't judge a book by it's cover, but at the same time, you have to be on alert. If he had already been yelling with the manager, and then left and came back with the bat, you can bet I would be ready for a fight. No one would know if he was packing as well as carrying a baseball bat. The sad truth is, if he was a very large person, he would have a much greater chance of getting shot, since his much greater strength would make him a deadly threat. It's like throttle control. In a given situation you can apply varying degrees of force. Too little won't get the job done, too much will land you on your head, but sometimes, you can give it all you got and it's still not enough, that's when you hit the nitrous button. A concealed weapon is meant to be just that, concealed, unless, you need to use it to stop someone and have given it all you had otherwise.

[Jester666]

I have a gun!

Not killed anyone with it although a few woodpigeons and rats have found their way in front of my sights!!

[rz_racer_69]

and this... Florida Man Mistakes Girlfriend for a Hog, Shoots Her
http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/fl ... ories.html
Is an eyesight test mandatory when getting a gun licence?

Eh, "mistakes" happen, he made some and she made some. There is no question about that. Humans do stupid things.

Anybody of age can purchase a gun if they meet certain criteria, like not having a felony conviction or have been charged with family violence, among other things. However, there is no such thing as a gun license in the US. Sometimes the hardest thing to do around here, after taking away Grandpa's keys when he's too old to drive anymore, is getting his guns too. As far as a concealed carry license, you do have to take a marksmanship test to verify that you know how to operate your firearm and can hit what you are aiming at, most of the time. There was a recent controversial case where the authorities had to come in and take the guns away from a nearly blind man. I won't go into it too far, but I sided with the authorities on this one, as he was not clearly in his right mind and had accidentally shot himself. If he had been in his right mind, had not shot himself, and kept his firearms locked in a secure storage area, the authorities would not have had any problems. He was a target shooter who enjoyed to shoot even after blindness overtook his life. It is a sad case.

[Wicky]

Would you pull your concealed mobile phone and call 911 or your concealed gun first? Shoot him entering the shop with a baseball bat or as he left the shop*? If you shoot him as he comes in then that would be a tad preemptive and probably be murder at best manslaughter and if you shot him as he left then what good does that do to protecting the manager?? If you choose to shoot him as he assaults the manger you risk shooting bystanders inc. the manager who I would think not be well pleased.

*Scary as I often carry my cricket bat into shops on my way to games dressed in MC leathers and hopefully won't get shot for doing so.

[rz_racer_69]

I have a gun!

Not killed anyone with it although a few woodpigeons and rats have found their way in front of my sights!!

I have only hunted dove with my father as a young child. I have many fond memories of that.

One of my favorite rifles is an old semi-auto Marlin Model 60 in 22LR with a stainless action and barrel.


but my best target gun is a very sweet bolt-action 22LR Savage Mark II in walnut. I can knock the wings off a gnat at 50yards with this.
1/2" groups at 100yards too.


The only thing I kill now is paper.

[Wicky]

Quite right

I worked in a hospital Ophthalmology dept and people drove to their cataract appointments! I asked how they managed to do so over quite long journeys and they said they followed the car in front. Yet currently there is no legal compulsion to stop them immediately driving.

Police push for change in the law after death of 16-year-old girl
http://www.essex.police.uk/news_feature ... _th-1.aspx

and this... Florida Man Mistakes Girlfriend for a Hog, Shoots Her
http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/fl ... ories.html
Is an eyesight test mandatory when getting a gun licence?

Eh, "mistakes" happen, he made some and she made some. There is no question about that. Humans do stupid things.

Anybody of age can purchase a gun if they meet certain criteria, like not having a felony conviction or have been charged with family violence, among other things. However, there is no such thing as a gun license in the US. Sometimes the hardest thing to do around here, after taking away Grandpa's keys when he's too old to drive anymore, is getting his guns too. As far as a concealed carry license, you do have to take a marksmanship test to verify that you know how to operate your firearm and can hit what you are aiming at, most of the time. There was a recent controversial case where the authorities had to come in and take the guns away from a nearly blind man. I won't go into it too far, but I sided with the authorities on this one, as he was not clearly in his right mind and had accidentally shot himself. If he had been in his right mind, had not shot himself, and kept his firearms locked in a secure storage area, the authorities would not have had any problems. He was a target shooter who enjoyed to shoot even after blindness overtook his life. It is a sad case.

[Jester666]

Unfortunately I don't have a FAC (Firearms Certificate) so bullets are out for me!!

I have a BSA Lightning .22 and mainly shoot paper but I have free reign to wander the farm taking out woodies and rats.

[rz_racer_69]

Would you pull your concealed mobile phone and call 911 or your concealed gun first?

I'd leave it to someone else to call 911, I would be busy. When seconds count, the police are only minutes away!

Shoot him entering the shop with a baseball bat or as he left the shop*?

Neither would be right, and would quickly land my ass in the clink to boot, regardless of my reasoning. He would have to pose a imminent threat to someone's life, and my course of action is only to stop him, with as little force as needed. If he had already committed the crime and was leaving, I would have no right to shoot him. But if he attacked me as I was writing down his license # and taking his picture for the police, well that would be another story.

If you choose to shoot him as he assaults the manger you risk shooting bystanders inc. the manager who I would think not be well pleased.

Oh absolutely. Anyone who decides to carry a firearm has a responsibility to be efficient and accurate with their weapon. Sadly not everyone takes that to heart. Whether you are hunting, target shooting, or defending your life, you always have to know what is down range, and what is in the firing line. Sometimes, you just can't take that shot. This was the error made by the hunter earlier in this thread. He heard a noise and shot. Stupid stupid stupid.

*Scary as I often carry my cricket bat into shops on my way to games dressed in MC leathers and hopefully won't get shot for doing so.

I can't imagine why you would, you don't sound like a maniac. I go into my local stores dressed the same way, and depending on how late I am, sometimes even leave my flip-up helmet on, but I do flip up the front so they can see my face. Everyone just smiles, and nods, thinking look at that poor chap, lol. But I don't care.

[Wicky]

So when would you have taken a potshot at the assailant assuming he was intent on assaulting your hypothetical manager son in your telling of the McDonalds tale? only if he went directly at you? Are you within your rights to shoot him if you produced the gun and he fled as a result?

What if he was your son, proud to have been promoted to manager, baby on the way, trying to make ends meet, now gone, due to a psychopath. What if you were there visiting your son, and getting a cup of coffee, and saw the whole thing unfolding. What then? What would you do? You just going to stand by and watch your son get killed by a cold blooded murderer, or are you going to jump into the fight perhaps trying to get the upper hand, but instead, getting your head bashed in too, but maybe not so bad that you can't see what happens next, as the attacker then kills someone you love. I'll bet, as you are laying bleeding on the ground, you are not thinking how great it is you weren't allowed to have a gun. No, I'll bet you are not thinking that at all.

[rz_racer_69]

Unfortunately I don't have a FAC (Firearms Certificate) so bullets are out for me!!

I have a BSA Lightning .22 and mainly shoot paper but I have free reign to wander the farm taking out woodies and rats.

I love my little Daisy .17 cal air gun, BB's and pellets. Bought an indoor target trap, and when the weather gets bad and I need to shoot something, I set it up down the hall, about 30 feet away. I have some swinging steel targets set up in my back yard and can poke my head out the sliding door and pop off some shots to keep myself sharp. Not allowed to shoot anything in city limits though, but really don't like the idea of killing things anyway, so I prefer inanimate objects.

[rz_racer_69]

Are you within your rights to shoot him if you produced the gun and he fled as a result?

No! Absolutely not. Under that exact condition, knowing nothing more of his intentions, I have no right to use any sort of deadly force, no matter how much I might want to, to stop him from escaping. If he had committed assault and was leaving, I suppose someone could tackle him, but the sad truth is, if he were hurt trying to escape, he could sue you. Now in some states, we do have the right to use deadly force to protect our belongings, Texas included. So If he were to jump in my car and try to take off, and I put two in the side of his head, it would be within my rights. Would I do it? I don't know. I doubt I would if he were just stealing my car.