engine wnt start !!!!

[Kev L]

Too much Hollywood watching Carl! Did you want Bruce Willis forward rolling off of the top of the wagon as well!

[TonyW650]

very good Kev.
it was ment to make us aware of how much of a hazardous environment we live and work in.
think the bang work a few people up that were nodding off on the course lol

[scott02464]

i pannicked and shut it off ... can a tank explode ? lol

No :-)

It would have to rupture for all the fuel to ignite in one go.

Iv just thought, this all didn't happen in your front living room did it lol

its not the fuel that will ignite its the vapours,

No sh1t?

[/quote] aviation fuel generally has a higher octane rate.[/quote]

Aviation fuel is a lot less volatile than petrol mate, you'll find it near impossible to light aviation fuel with a match as it is Diesel/kerosene based.

[TonyW650]

I restored a old ford Granada v8 years ago, well helped anyway and he had a fuel leak at one point, you could see the fuel boiling in the V of the engine, was interesting to watch.


scott, isnt it to do with something about compression rates, Dont aviation (jet A and A-1) fuel have a higher compression rate and flash point, hence being more like diesel.
Were as the fuels for piston engine airgraft can range from 87 ron upwards and have properties closer to petrol we put in cars and bikes.
I'm a bit rusty now did my training about 10 years ago and only used it for about 2 years after that.

[VTRDark]

Too much Hollywood watching Carl! Did you want Bruce Willis forward rolling off of the top of the wagon as well!

Yeh maybe, but I do like a big explosion. It's the bonfire boy in me.

That train video is shocking. What a knob, did he think it was a handrail. He wont do that again.

(:-})

[scott02464]

I restored a old ford Granada v8 years ago, well helped anyway and he had a fuel leak at one point, you could see the fuel boiling in the V of the engine, was interesting to watch.


scott, isnt it to do with something about compression rates, Dont aviation (jet A and A-1) fuel have a higher compression rate and flash point, hence being more like diesel.
Were as the fuels for piston engine airgraft can range from 87 ron upwards and have properties closer to petrol we put in cars and bikes.
I'm a bit rusty now did my training about 10 years ago and only used it for about 2 years after that.

Yes mate petrol has a lower flashpoint
As you say than jet1.
It's Avgas for the light aircraft which is prob 99% the same as we put in our bikes.

A good way of thinking about it is, the flashpoint of a liquid is when it's giving off enough vapours to ignite when a flame makes contact.

Seeing as petrol is most stable (no vapours) at say -50 degrees C, or maybe lower, at outside temp it's almost 'boiling' so to speak so the vapours are increased, like boiling a kettle with water but much lower temps, if that makes sense... :-)

At work we apply this principle to everything and call it Pyrolysis. Everything will Pyrolyise when it gets hot enough (even us)
When a compartment (room in a building) is hot enough due to a fire everything will pyrolise and give off flammable gases, and ignite. This is called a Flashover and can be bloody dangerous if your in that compartment lol

[VTRDark]

Seeing as petrol is most stable (no vapours) at say -50 degrees C, or maybe lower, at outside temp it's almost 'boiling' so to speak so the vapours are increased

That makes perfect sense. This would explain why in a hotter climates you can actually see the vapours.

like boiling a kettle with water but much lower temps

but this don't. While trying to get my head around in context to what you said above, this started me thinking about pressure and how higher pressure creates heat. Or have I heat the nail on the head there, and this could be the reason for the breather on a fuel tank.

When a compartment (room in a building) is hot enough due to a fire everything will pyrolise and give off flammable gases, and ignite.

So it's not just taking the heat away,which puts the fire out, but getting rid of the gases caused by it so it don't re-ignite.
So when one has a bonfire and lets it die down. Go back to it the next day or a few days later (depending how big it was) So when taking of the top layer, is it the gases that have been contained that re-ignite it rather than the residual heat. Though the heat would have to be there too.

Everything will Pyrolyise when it gets hot enough (even us)

Spontaneous combustion springs to mind.

Very interesting.

(:-})

[scott02464]

Carl i was just meaning its the same as a boiling kettle but further up the temp scale, it's a lot less temp for petrol to give off vapours at say -45degrees compared to a kettle boiling (steam) at 100degrees :-)

Yeah 'spontaneous combustion' is Auto Ignition temp which for something to do must be extremely hot (like petrol dripping onto a Red hot exhaust) which would instantly heat the drop of fuel to its Auto ignition temp and igniting it without a naked direct flame...

[scott02464]

[/quote]So it's not just taking the heat away,which puts the fire out, but getting rid of the gases caused by it so it don't re-ignite.

(:-})[/quote]

That's right mate, when you enter a compartment we spay fine water into the fire gases (smoke) to dilute the flamable mixture making it lean (it's exactly the same as you know the 'stiocametric' mixture but on a bigger scale)

But too much spray will cause too much steam pushing the hot fire gases down making it more inhospitable for us ha

A fire left to its own devises will create a Rich environment so that when you enter that room you are entertaining fresh air in (bringing the rich mixture down to the stoicametric mixture, combined with the ignition source from the initial fire you have a back draught

Fire training lesson one tomorrow well do RTC lol

[TonyW650]

Just out of interest Scott, what do you do? job wise

[VTRDark]

He's a Fireman or should I say Firefighter.

Scott I got ultimate respect for you guys it's a tough job you have to deal with. Not only dangerous but also tedious when it comes to da youths who think it's fun to set fire to vehicles and whatever.

Keep up the good work mate.

(:-})

[scott02464]

Just out of interest Scott, what do you do? job wise

I'm a fireman mate lol

[scott02464]

Carl you must have posted that at the same time lol!

Thanks for the comments mate much appreciated, I really love the job and feel lucky do it. It's very rewarding but there are bad bits just like any other job ha

[TonyW650]

thats explains a few things scott.
just wondered as you knew alot of stuff i have to know aswell, I'm a fire alarm engineer and fully qualified extinguisher engineer, Done all my Extinguisher training down a Bristol Avon-mouth, had some BA and live fire training aswell and done all the Petrol station forecourt training with UKPIA and Airport side training for Gatwick.

We're normally the bane of the fire fighters lives, good old fire alarms with monitoring getting you guys out. But every respect for the Job you guys do, seen how hard if can be.
Had to go into sites to work out why the fire alarm failed to operated and seen the carnage and state of the buildings after a fire, amazing how you guys do it sometimes.

Did piss a Kent crew off last year, car was on the hard shoulder of M20, fire had started under bonnet and the women had popped the catch and was about to open it, when I pulled over and stopped her, made her stand back, pulled a 9kg dry powerder out the car and fired it through the gap between bonnet and cross member, put the fire out and then the crew arrived and I got told off for putting one of their first car fires out for last year.

Used to do all the site extinguisher training for companies so it kinda comes natural to do what I did, but you guys dont like people jumping in which is fair enough.
kudos to you mate for one of potentially the hardest jobs out there

[scott02464]

We're normally the bane of the fire fighters lives, good old fire alarms with monitoring getting you guys out.

LOL, the false ones do get annoying mate ha, but could and have been real on the odd day

[/quote]Did piss a Kent crew off last year, car was on the hard shoulder of M20, fire had started under bonnet and the women had popped the catch and was about to open it, when I pulled over and stopped her, made her stand back, pulled a 9kg dry powerder out the car and fired it through the gap between bonnet and cross member, put the fire out and then the crew arrived and I got told off for putting one of their first car fires out for last year.[/quote]

Dont worry about him fella, he must have been on his period that day you did right, you get knobs everywhere you go and he must have been one of them.

Theres been alot of cuts lately and our bigade have stopped training the companies on fire extinguishers and knowledge which is a big shame! You do a good job mate, fire alarms save lives, we put the fires out when the alarms have got everyone out safe

Although I go to far more traffic accidents than fires. We do loads of road safety events but i suppose if you get a daft driver you cant change much...