Sigma vs. Dynojet carb kits

[Bleh]

Anyone have experience with either or both?
Is the difference significant after an upgrade of either?

The other thing is does anyone know if there is any difference in carbs between our British firestorm versions across the pond super hawk versions? There is a substantial difference in price buying either kit from the states in comparison to over here... Almost half the price in fact!

Thanks in advance.

[VTRDark]

The other thing is does anyone know if there is any difference in carbs between our British firestorm versions across the pond super hawk versions?

Carbs or jet kits. If kits then read the following http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 14#p238580

(:-})

[leevtr]

Anyone have experience with either or both?
Is the difference significant after an upgrade of either?

The other thing is does anyone know if there is any difference in carbs between our British firestorm versions across the pond super hawk versions? There is a substantial difference in price buying either kit from the states in comparison to over here... Almost half the price in fact!

Thanks in advance.

You'll get many more qualified persons answer this than me, but for what its worth.....

I've had 2 of my Previous Storms fitted with Dynojet kits. One fitted for me by my mechanic at the time, the second I did myself, and it wasnt difficult tbh. Both were fitted as per the instructions, except for the drilling of the slides, which was omitted in both instances. Neither bike was not set up on a dyno, but was later on checked by an independant dyno operator, and in both instances the results were very good. For this reason I would stick with this in the event that I decided to do it again.

Oh...aftermarket silencers and standard air filters in both cases. Go down the K&N route if you like, but you'll spend hundreds of pounds trying to stop your bike running like a pig. For probably 2 bhp ??????

[Bleh]

Thanks Cybercarl, very informative topic and now have myself wondering which route to go down... HRC obviously more desirable but also more costly (plus can't seem to find them in stock anywhere and where they are listed (unavailable), they're a sweet 250 euro).

This is the sigma version I have seen;
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-VTR1000 ... 3cd42aba8b

Doesn't seem a lot of money for what's on offer (although most of it sounds like nonsense, just put there to dill the page!).

I feel the carbs need a good overhaul as the bike is 13 years old (with FSH when I bought it) and will 'assume' they've never been off for a good cleaning out. Also, having 37k on it, the needles will obviously be showing signs of wear, so if nothing else, this sigma kit is more likely a sort of patent replacement and in turn makes things feel different (see, I am very skeptical of elaborate claims made by people wanting my money, skeptical indeed!!!).

My other question was meant to ask if the carbs are the same for each version (uk and us), i.e. would super hawk carbs fit onto a fire storm without modifications required. Reason I asked is because the kit is advertised for super hawks so wondered if there were any slight variations as there often is for us here and them there!

[Bleh]

Thanks leevtr, good to see you had a positive experience with your set up, it's encouraging.

I'm not a fan of K&N tbh, I feel pipecross probably offer more in terms of performance gains but I have no intention of track riding so will probably stick with standard air filter (likely order it tonight), have ordered new iridium plugs (flea-bay literally half the price of M&P's, one of my local shops) but don't want to do the work without giving the carbs a good haul and they will need it on a 13 year old bike that has lived on the coast for the last few years... Wouldn't surprise me if my air box is now a sand box

Reading through the topic cybercarl put up, I may try my luck at messaging the seller on flea bay and requesting some of the pilot sizes listed in that post.

Only running standard cans a mo... Not long had the bike and it is 100% original... for now

[VTRDark]

The last off the shelf HRC jet kit was sold not so long ago. You wont find one

I have never seen the Sigma kit so couldn't comment on it. Whether you even need a jet kit is debatable, but having adjustable needles can be useful. On the subject of needles you sat they will obviously be showing signs of wear. Don't forget the other end (needle jets) where the needle slides in. These also wear, and will wear to the shape of the needles and are non replaceable for the average mechanic really. So replacing the needles due to wear is a bit like putting on a new chain on old sprockets. It takes years for standard needles or needle jets to wear to the point of needing replacing. Changing the needles for aftermarket ones can actually speed this up. There is a question over whether the Titanium needles in the Factory Pro kit add to this with Titanium rubbing against Brass, but we taking fractions of an inch. Unless your carbs have serious fuelling issues I wouldn't worry too much about it. It could always possibly be dialled out by adjusting the jetting to suit.

As for the carbs, as far as I'm aware there are very little differences between the US and UK ones. The one thing they will have that we don't in our early modal VTR's, is the PAIR system which connects to the carbs. This can easily be capped off so not a problem. There are differences with the jetting as in any other country. The US needle profiles are a different part numbers and I suspect slightly different profiles as they are different lengths. They also have 45 Pilot jets as standard, whereas over here it was only the first couple of years of production that had 45's and then they changed to 48's.

(:-})

[Bleh]

Whether you even need a jet kit is debatable, but having adjustable needles can be useful. On the subject of needles you sat they will obviously be showing signs of wear. Don't forget the other end (needle jets) where the needle slides in. These also wear, and will wear to the shape of the needles and are non replaceable for the average mechanic really.)

Sorry, should've been more clear with what I was saying, goes without saying (in my mind at least) that the jets would also need changing, I'm just not very good at explaining exactly what I mean sometimes - but your analogy of chain and sprockets is very good, I will be sure to use it in the future.

I'm not a shy mechanic, neither do I rate myself tbh... My logic is you can either do the job or you can't (tools depending), however, several of my friends appear to rate me (or just simply lazy and know I will help ). Still, I am always keen to listen and learn to the voice of more experience (such as yourself cybercarl as is evident).

I often over complicate things these days in comparison to them days. In them days, I would just do a little bit of reading and a little bit of trial and error. These days, I am studying engineering (course I'm on: http://www.motoeng.com/motoeng/Motorcyc ... ering.html) in university as a mature student which is all about finding and calculating values of this, that and the other. This makes me worry about trial and error now; maybe I was better off just doing what I was doing

So cybercarl, if you don't mind me asking your opinion, for my 2000 FY, if I'm not already running #48's pilots, I'd like to consider running 180 front and 182 rear (main jets) with the latter to aid cooling (as per your article), possibly using the original springs.

After christmas, I may need to source a tidy welder to make me some headers and get some tasteful after market cans on it but before that, MCCT's and R1 rectifier (maybe over the next month). Any tidy posts for re-wiring the rectifier or is it a direct fit? All I've read is the R1 reggy-rec is an ideal replacement.

Thanks again for all the advice and words of wisdom

[lloydie]

Bugger just noticed the hrc was sold out :-(
Here's a pic of one

[Wicky]

Any tidy posts for re-wiring the rectifier or is it a direct fit? All I've read is the R1 reggy-rec is an ideal replacement.

You'll need a Yam FH marked 'MOSFET' type R/R rather than a SH type.

http://www.superhawkforum.com/forums/kn ... how-25117/

http://vtr1000f.wickidnet.com



http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-R1-Reg ... 1e801790e8

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UNIVERSAL-MOT ... 53fce63c8d

[Bleh]

Any tidy posts for re-wiring the rectifier or is it a direct fit? All I've read is the R1 reggy-rec is an ideal replacement.

You'll need a Yam FH marked 'MOSFET' type R/R rather than a SH type.

Wow, no UK sellers!
What's the significance with the difference in models? Also, does it fit on the rectifier plate snug as a glove or is there need of modification?

[Wicky]

Click and read the two links below what you quoted.

MOSFET Regulator/Rectifiers - The Why & The How

Replacement Regulator/Rectifier Mod

Any tidy posts for re-wiring the rectifier or is it a direct fit? All I've read is the R1 reggy-rec is an ideal replacement.

You'll need a Yam FH marked 'MOSFET' type R/R rather than a SH type.

Wow, no UK sellers!
What's the significance with the difference in models? Also, does it fit on the rectifier plate snug as a glove or is there need of modification?

[Bleh]

Thanks Wicky. I presume that reading a post of an american forum was the intention (had to copy and paste into search engine as direct link didn't work, but no bother).

From what I gathered, as well as the MOSFET rectifiers being better equipped to control the currents, the R1 version was largely suggested due to the current differences the bike demands, i.e. the VTR 35A whereas the R1 50A therefore resulting in less demand and in turn longer life!

I'll double check mine isn't FH rated (which it more than likely is not) before proceeding to pursue one. May even take a visit to the local breakers who's quite happy to let you shuffle around his buckets!

[VTRDark]

And here's another one for you, recent topic on R/R's http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic ... +rectifier

the voice of more experience (such as yourself cybercarl as is evident)

Oh please no I'm just someone the other end of the screen. I find the best way to learn is to not always listen to anybody else and do ones own research, verifying and/or gathering new information, experiment/play, take things apart and putting them back together, work out how it works/operates and learn for oneself. Saying that, there is a lot to be said for going to college/university as there are always things that will stick with you that you might not learn anywhere else. It can even change your mindset.

So cybercarl, if you don't mind me asking your opinion, for my 2000 FY, if I'm not already running #48's pilots, I'd like to consider running 180 front and 182 rear (main jets) with the latter to aid cooling (as per your article), possibly using the original springs.

You will most likely have 48 pilots unless they have been changed. The larger rear is to aid cooling, the same as Honda does it. As standard it's 175 fr and 178 r. Whether you require a 180 and 182 depends on various things. Which air filter your using, which exhaust you running, whether that's a full system or just end cans, any other mods, climate, wear and tear, other carb settings (needle profile/height, pilot, fuel screw position) etc etc. I can't say 100% yes you need a 180 and 182 main jet. Be aware that Dynojet and Keihin (standard) jets use a different measurement scale so a 180 dynojet is different from a Keihin jet.

Carb tunning is usually not a straight plug and play and can take few attempts to get things right or where your happy. Expect to be removing carbs and making changes a few times chasing perfection. Or just take it to the dynotech for a few runs and have the changes made there.

Have a read through the rest of the posts in the Carb Tunning Guide in my signature.

(:-})

[tony.mon]

And here's another one for you, recent topic on R/R's http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic ... +rectifier

the voice of more experience (such as yourself cybercarl as is evident)

Oh please no I'm just someone the other end of the screen.
(:-})

I, on the other hand, am an expert.
An ex is a has-been, and a spurt is a drip under pressure. I say this only sardonically, unless you are taking this post seriously.
If so, PM me for the address to send your cheque to.

Jets are bits of brass with holes in. One made by (say) Dynojet is the same as one with a similar-sized hole made by (say) Amal, or in this case, Sigma.
Jets are jets.
Needles are also needles, once you understand the diameter, taper, and length one is much the same as the other, and no amount of riding will tell you one from the other.

The skill is providing jets and needles that get the best from your engine.
But hold on a minute, all engines are different- some produce more power, less power, more or less torque, and a t different places in the rev range. Some seem to do 45 to the gallon, some 17.
So how the hell is a kit bought over the counter or on the internet meant to be tailored to suit your particular engine, mileage, rev range ridden in or riding style?

If there was an answer to the question you have asked, why would anyone buy the second-best option, or even ake and try to sell it?

If I were to tell you that SIgma kits made five BHP more, but DYnojet were £3 cheaper, what would you do?
And would you want your money back if the Sigma kit you then bought and fitted made only 3 BHP?

Bolting any part on to your bike is a simple exercise in getting an improvement in the direction you want to achieve- more BHP, more torque, less petrol used each week, cheaper..... whatever.


Now, which colour;s fastest, that's a good question, that one is worth asking, worth exploring,, experimenting, and playing with.
Spray your bike the fastest colour, that's where my money would be going, if mine wasn't already that colour, of course.....


rant of the day award, here I come.

[VTRDark]

Very good Tony. That pretty much hits the nail on the head, oh hold on...you might hammer me down for that.

Your right though, there's not much between various kits and they all take slightly different approach to things. It's all down to getting to know what does what and finding an even balance where the bike runs as you like it. Jet kits might juts be a waste of money and one could take Hawks route http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 31&t=28922 which works well for a lot of folk. Maybe use the money that would have been spent on the jet kit on a flow commander instead.

(:-})