New VTR rider..project

[gtecomp]

hm...something is not right. My neighbors are getting jumpy from explosions . If I continue with miss fires, I'll definetlly broke a starter clutch.

VTR is 0-270 ignition events?

in ignitech manual is written

rear cyl (1) is around 6 tooth or 150 deg from the missing gap
front cyl () is around 9 tooth or 240 deg from missing gap.

In the ECU software you can put just this basic data:

events cyl 1 0deg cyl, 2 270deg
missing tooth 12-3
wasted spark
first tooth is 260 (so needed value) deg BTDC Cyl1.


I tried every possible ignition angle and motor work somehow with 260 deg....which is in missing tooth area, so it mess the calculation and can't jump over after 5000rpm .

[gtecomp]

Hm...I was able to open old Megasquirt file that Mr. Martin post before. There is something interesting

TDC 1 cyl is 15 deg and 1 skipped pulse.

as far as 1 pulse (I assume this is 1 teeth ) or 30 deg...that means 45 deg...I never tried something lower then 75deg. Tomorow I'll try

[MK_WF]

As I don't know the necessary MaxECU settings, I can't tell exactly whats wrong.
But you have to remember that this is a crank sensor (not a cam one) and thus you can't tell if it's ignition TDC or not.

What I could advise is to start with a wasted spark setup until you have an adequate cam position sensor.
I.e take the deg of first spark on cylinder 1, then add 90 deg and you spark #2, then add 90 deg and spark #1 and another 90 deg later it's time for #2 again.
So you fire at each TDC.

To find out, if it's at the right angle, you can mark the rotor with a felt pen. Then let the engine crank and strobe that state.
Check where the actual spark takes place and change the base angle to where you need it to have the spark at 15 deg BTC.
This is for example how I tried to have the megasquirt control an external CDI on the RD. The necessary angle in the settings was some weird value that I wouldn't think of before.
(at the end I'm using a fully programmable external CDI which is sending an rpm signal to the MSII which then adds the fueling)

[8541Hawk]

[quote=gtecomp post_id=494650 time=1634484558 user_id=15859]


VTR is 0-270 ignition events?

270-450 is how a vtr is set up

[gtecomp]

hm...a how to put 270-450 deg in ECU settings.

now firing order is 1 the 2 cyl 0 - 270 deg

They said 1 cyl should be aways 0 deg...so the cyl 2 should be 450 deg?

or 0 -450 deg?

[gtecomp]

from old tread
so 0 - 450 deg

[gtecomp]

another problem. My strobe light (very simple one) can handle cdi or I don't know...but too much 'blinking'. What ever angle I set, I always see marked spot . I marked a dot with my wife nail lack...I've asked for red and green...I received only redish one and for green one.

Anyway tomorow I'll buy more advance strobe light with rpm settings and deg. change.

[gtecomp]

Soo...

I visit with my friend (drag car tunner and fabricator) and borrow mega ultra strobe light (angle adjusting, rpm etc.). Connect it to coils, some checks and again I see all timing marks .....ALL together. Dismantle the MaxxEcu and put it in the vise...it was really, really close to smash the stupied device.

...then I think a little, connect both strobe lights 1 and 2 cylinder and noticed ,that they blink completely in synchron . And then I understand what is happening in their so called

wasted spark mode

even that you make 2 ign events
event 1 - 0 deg
event 2 - 450deg

you made firing order
1 cyl
2 cyl

the ECU fires both coils together

Choice of the other ignition modes require distributor or CAM sensor.

There is advance mode, but in the help is written,
quote...Manual ignition distribution - Advanced way of controlling the ignition outputs. Do not use if you don't know what you are doing.

Nice ha! This is all information!

So I switch this mode on, and as far as I understand , you can basiclly code firing events sequence and cylinder.

So I put
event 1 - 0 deg - 1 cyl
event 2 -450 deg - 2 cyl

Ok now was possible to 'shoot' the ignition properly and basic trigger angle is ### deg or 1 tooth is %%%deg BTDC 1 cyl

Happy happy happy...but no. Can you guess, why bike is starting 50% flawless and 50% you can turn it till the end of the world and will never fire?

If you guess right I tell you the rest of the this evening story!

But finally happy end!

[MK_WF]

Easy answer.
Because you trigger from the crank wheel and not from a cam sensor.
In the first case you have a 50:50 chance to have the right cylinder at the right TDC.

BTW that's why people use wasted spark setups as it doesn't matter in this case.

[gtecomp]

Absolute right! Strange is that engine always stop in wrong position. I even try to rotate engine with ratchet 180 deg and then it the button and engine start...and it is full sequetional.

But ok the rest of story. How to deal with this?!?!?

I switch to 4 cyl engine

1 event 0 deg
2 event 90 deg
3 event 360 deg
4 event 450 deg

Firing order 1 2 1 2

And it works.

So for the records

VTR engine is 0-450 engine
rear cylinder is 6 tooth or 160 deg fron 1-st tooth
front cylinder is 9 tooth or 450 deg from TDC 1 cyl

[sirch345]

I'm glad to hear you are getting there

Chris.

[tony.mon]

That's why Honda put a cam sensor on the later Varadero!
Well done for sorting it.

[8541Hawk]

from old tread
so 0 - 450 deg

No that is not correct......

the front fires and then you get 270 degrees of rotation and the rear fires. Then you get 450 degrees of rotation to get back to "0" or a total of 720 degrees of rotation for the front to fire again.

[gtecomp]

hmmmm.. with 0-270 firing order I receive so much explosions that the neighbor complain to me that the chicken are depressed and no eating

And yes you are right, but finally 450 deg is distance between two ign. events, where ever you put the "0" event - at 0 or 270 deg.


...or not.hm we have one event on 270 then second at 450 deg..ahhhhhh that's why they called it 270-450.

[MK_WF]

Just these days I stumbled over a setting in the Megasquirt software that may help you to get away without a cam sensor.

The trick is that they use the MAP sensor to determine if the engine is "sucking air" and thus the "next TDC" must be the ignition TDC.
You should check the help of your ECU, whether they offer a similar setting.

Another software trick I'm aware of is that the ECU "tries" both settings of "this is the right TDC to fire" or "fire next TDC". If the engine starts, the chosen setting is kept.
But this is something the developer would need to implement.