Hey lads, thanks for the help.
Yes Chuxta it is exactly like yours, I might take the bike out today and will drive great for an hour and then terribly for the rest of the day. One day last week I put up about 80miles on her and she didn't give a scrap of bother all day, whereas yesterday I honestly thought I might not get her home at all! Its extremely frustrating.
I have Art cans, they were on the bike when I bought it.
The PAIR valve is actually missing completely, the rubber hose from the silver-coloured plate with the pout on the top of the back cylinder simply goes nowhere. Looking at the manual I spotted it should be going to the PAIR, which looks like a little plastic box, but this is missing off my bike.
The vacuum hose is fine, def not kinked or perforated.
I shortened the plugleads last night by about half an inch each. I'll be taking her the 50 miles to Uni and back today so hopefully we might have some change in performance but i doubt it. fingers crossed tho.
thanks again lads.
Erratic performance 5,000 rpm
Hi lads, no difference in her at all today, apart from she's acting up practically all the time now.
I have had one stroke of luck though. A friend of a friend has a Firestorm and this sunday he will let me swop out any bits and pieces i want and take her for a spin in an effort to track down the problem. I'm thinking first stop the coils anyway and perhaps the ICU thingy. Is there anything else I should swop out and try while I have the chance?
I have had one stroke of luck though. A friend of a friend has a Firestorm and this sunday he will let me swop out any bits and pieces i want and take her for a spin in an effort to track down the problem. I'm thinking first stop the coils anyway and perhaps the ICU thingy. Is there anything else I should swop out and try while I have the chance?
as im having what appears to be the same problem, i could be wrong though but they do sound the same although yours does seem worse than mine,
it does feel like a fuel issue when it starts to happen to mine.
and now i think back it never happend when i had the standard cans on it.
so it must be something to do with the race cans ( that dont have not for road use on, well if you dont look it dont say that
)
have you tried running the stock cans on it?
and leave them on for a while cause i know that the issue didnt start instantly when i put my microns on.
it does feel like a fuel issue when it starts to happen to mine.
and now i think back it never happend when i had the standard cans on it.
so it must be something to do with the race cans ( that dont have not for road use on, well if you dont look it dont say that
)have you tried running the stock cans on it?
and leave them on for a while cause i know that the issue didnt start instantly when i put my microns on.
The PAIR system was only fitted to north american storms. Some sort of emission control system. Unless yours is an import I wouldnt read too much into that.zixxer wrote: The PAIR valve is actually missing completely, the rubber hose from the silver-coloured plate with the pout on the top of the back cylinder simply goes nowhere. Looking at the manual I spotted it should be going to the PAIR, which looks like a little plastic box, but this is missing off my bike.
Rich.
That was a bit of a disapointment for you, but aleast it's adding to the list of things it's not 
That's brilliant you've found another Storm owner who's willing to help you get to the bottom of the problem. I would say starting with the ignition coils first is a good idea.
If you do find you're swapping the black boxes (ICU etc) make sure the ignition is turned off before disconnecting the block terminal connectors, as damaged may be caused to the units if they are still powered up when you disconnect them
I still think you want to check out that link I posted in one of my earlier posts (if you've not already), that the PAIR system has been properly blanked off when it was removed, although if this problem has only started since the failure of the rectifier with the PAIR system already removed, then you should be able to rule that possibility out.
Good luck with it,
Chris.
PS. One thing that's just come to mind, it might be worth checking that the chokes on each carb are actually shutting off. It's possible that one of them could be sticking on although the choke knob is even pushed all the way in. The cable arrangement is a two-into-one affair.
That's brilliant you've found another Storm owner who's willing to help you get to the bottom of the problem. I would say starting with the ignition coils first is a good idea.
If you do find you're swapping the black boxes (ICU etc) make sure the ignition is turned off before disconnecting the block terminal connectors, as damaged may be caused to the units if they are still powered up when you disconnect them
I still think you want to check out that link I posted in one of my earlier posts (if you've not already), that the PAIR system has been properly blanked off when it was removed, although if this problem has only started since the failure of the rectifier with the PAIR system already removed, then you should be able to rule that possibility out.
Good luck with it,
Chris.
PS. One thing that's just come to mind, it might be worth checking that the chokes on each carb are actually shutting off. It's possible that one of them could be sticking on although the choke knob is even pushed all the way in. The cable arrangement is a two-into-one affair.
Last edited by sirch345 on Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
hi lads, would you believe i've had almost no luck tracking this down yet! Yesterday I swopped out the coils, ecu, all the elctrical stuff and it made no difference whatsoever.
however, we also synced the carbs, which were well and truly out a lot. as a result the bike actually sounds a lot different (the engine itself and that umistakable whirring of the legendary vtr camchain) and she 'pops' and backfires beautifully on the throttle over run now. great fun to be had going through town at 8am this morning. she also does 80mph at about 4,200rpm, which is a lot better than before.
but unfortunately she seems to be stuttering even more also. i guess the positive outlook is that i've ruled out all the electrical stuff and have isolated the problem to the carbs.
have many of you out there disabled your PAIR system? - this is what i'm thinking.
do you know the four pipes running into the bottom of the airbox? two of them come from the vents on the valve covers and are crankcase breathers. the other two come up from the carbs. don't cunfuse the crankcase breathers with the PAIR system.
well, i'm going to try blanking off the two little pipes that come from the carbs. the reason i ask about the PAIR system is that another member on here, Chris, has suggested looking at the PAIR system and i don;t think it was disabled properly on my bike. Chris gave a link to a site that has a section detailing removal of the PAIR and as far as i can see the guy who wrote it suggests blanking off these four pipes feeding to the airbox.
any ideas lads? i'm into the realm of desperation now.
however, we also synced the carbs, which were well and truly out a lot. as a result the bike actually sounds a lot different (the engine itself and that umistakable whirring of the legendary vtr camchain) and she 'pops' and backfires beautifully on the throttle over run now. great fun to be had going through town at 8am this morning. she also does 80mph at about 4,200rpm, which is a lot better than before.
but unfortunately she seems to be stuttering even more also. i guess the positive outlook is that i've ruled out all the electrical stuff and have isolated the problem to the carbs.
have many of you out there disabled your PAIR system? - this is what i'm thinking.
do you know the four pipes running into the bottom of the airbox? two of them come from the vents on the valve covers and are crankcase breathers. the other two come up from the carbs. don't cunfuse the crankcase breathers with the PAIR system.
well, i'm going to try blanking off the two little pipes that come from the carbs. the reason i ask about the PAIR system is that another member on here, Chris, has suggested looking at the PAIR system and i don;t think it was disabled properly on my bike. Chris gave a link to a site that has a section detailing removal of the PAIR and as far as i can see the guy who wrote it suggests blanking off these four pipes feeding to the airbox.
any ideas lads? i'm into the realm of desperation now.
<a><img></a>
Here is what that guy says on the link:
--PROCEDURE--
To disable (or block) the PAIR valve:
-Remove the seat and tank (and PLEASE mark the vacuum/vent/fuel lines to
the tank so you can remember which way to reinstall them!!! Not doing
so may cause pain to yourself and the innocent little hard drive on the
VTR list server.)
-Remove the rubber hoses going to each PAIR valve.
-Remove the two bolts holding each PAIR valve in place.
-Remove the PAIR valves.
-You will see a small screw holding the reed stopper and reed in place.
Remove the screw, flip the reed stopper to hold the reed shut, and
replace the screw.
-You just disabled PAIR.
-Put everything back together (3.6 ft-lb on the PAIR valve bolts)
--FOR THE OBSESSIVE/COMPULSIVE--
Now, if you're one of those guys/gals who is happy being fat (me), and
really doesn't care to diet (me), but still wants to lose every .05
ounces of weight off the bike because it'll make you .00001 seconds
quicker in the quarter mile, but you can still feel the increased
acceleration by the "seat of the pants", plus it makes the bike handle
sooooo much better (not me, but I did it anyway), follow the next few
steps to remove the rest of the PAIR plumbing.
-Go to auto parts store and buy an assortment of small rubber vacuum
caps and the larger ~3/4" dia. "coolant block-off caps". I found mine
at Advance.
-Remove the seat and tank.
-Remove the airbox cover and airbox lower. Note that you must remove
the air funnels. The longer one is on the rear.
-Disconnect all the hoses one by one that attach to the airbox, engine,
and carbs.
-Replace each one with an appropriately sized rubber cap as you go.
IIRC, there is one screw holding the control valve to the airbox.
-Yank the whole thing as one assembly.
-You will now be able to go faster and lean further than ever before now
that all that excess weight is gone!
-Put everything back together.
--PROCEDURE--
To disable (or block) the PAIR valve:
-Remove the seat and tank (and PLEASE mark the vacuum/vent/fuel lines to
the tank so you can remember which way to reinstall them!!! Not doing
so may cause pain to yourself and the innocent little hard drive on the
VTR list server.)
-Remove the rubber hoses going to each PAIR valve.
-Remove the two bolts holding each PAIR valve in place.
-Remove the PAIR valves.
-You will see a small screw holding the reed stopper and reed in place.
Remove the screw, flip the reed stopper to hold the reed shut, and
replace the screw.
-You just disabled PAIR.
-Put everything back together (3.6 ft-lb on the PAIR valve bolts)
--FOR THE OBSESSIVE/COMPULSIVE--
Now, if you're one of those guys/gals who is happy being fat (me), and
really doesn't care to diet (me), but still wants to lose every .05
ounces of weight off the bike because it'll make you .00001 seconds
quicker in the quarter mile, but you can still feel the increased
acceleration by the "seat of the pants", plus it makes the bike handle
sooooo much better (not me, but I did it anyway), follow the next few
steps to remove the rest of the PAIR plumbing.
-Go to auto parts store and buy an assortment of small rubber vacuum
caps and the larger ~3/4" dia. "coolant block-off caps". I found mine
at Advance.
-Remove the seat and tank.
-Remove the airbox cover and airbox lower. Note that you must remove
the air funnels. The longer one is on the rear.
-Disconnect all the hoses one by one that attach to the airbox, engine,
and carbs.
-Replace each one with an appropriately sized rubber cap as you go.
IIRC, there is one screw holding the control valve to the airbox.
-Yank the whole thing as one assembly.
-You will now be able to go faster and lean further than ever before now
that all that excess weight is gone!
-Put everything back together.
<a><img></a>
Official UK models don't have the PAIR emissions system fitted
If you haven't done so already, try checking out the US http://superhawkforum.com/ for PAIR problems
If you haven't done so already, try checking out the US http://superhawkforum.com/ for PAIR problems
-
LotusSevenMan
- Posts: 1915
- Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 8:32 pm
- Location: Liss, Hampshire. UK
Zixxer.
Think it is too easy to go up blind alleys if you're not careful with this sort of thing.
I have just spent 3 years trying to find a tiny misfire and mixture problems on a Caterham 7 sportscar that turned out to be a functioning but misrepresenting TPS. Cost me so much time, effort and money you wouldn't believe it (actually a man like you would!).
Firstly, start at the beginning. The bike definitely was running fine before the RR overheated etc yes?
So if that was the case and all electrical bits were back as before then it'd run OK again. But, no.
So, what electrical part has had to be altered/altered itself.
RR - changed
Battery - changed
TPS - New item. Sure that the new one is OK? Mine as above was new but malfunctioning but still technically within tolerances. As it was new it was 'eliminated' from the list of problems. Wrong!!!
Go through the thing systematically.
Did it work OK before even with the bodged removal of the Canadian PAIR set-up? If so it'd be OK again etc.
See where I'm coming from?
The very best of Good Luck.
LSM
Think it is too easy to go up blind alleys if you're not careful with this sort of thing.
I have just spent 3 years trying to find a tiny misfire and mixture problems on a Caterham 7 sportscar that turned out to be a functioning but misrepresenting TPS. Cost me so much time, effort and money you wouldn't believe it (actually a man like you would!).
Firstly, start at the beginning. The bike definitely was running fine before the RR overheated etc yes?
So if that was the case and all electrical bits were back as before then it'd run OK again. But, no.
So, what electrical part has had to be altered/altered itself.
RR - changed
Battery - changed
TPS - New item. Sure that the new one is OK? Mine as above was new but malfunctioning but still technically within tolerances. As it was new it was 'eliminated' from the list of problems. Wrong!!!
Go through the thing systematically.
Did it work OK before even with the bodged removal of the Canadian PAIR set-up? If so it'd be OK again etc.
See where I'm coming from?
The very best of Good Luck.
LSM
"Only ride as fast as your guardian angel can fly" !!!
thanks LSM, you definately talk a lot of sense. i think its the frustration thats getting to me and diverting me up 'blind alleys'. man, i'm trying to study for major exams and the bike is my transport and is essential and when it gives trouble it throws everything into confusion. its desperation getting the better of me.
Your right, it can't be the PAIR system.
however, if synchronising the carbs made the problem worse then it surely points at carbs doesn't it? what can it be though? jets perhaps? i have gone through them meticiously, i mean a really fine toothcomb job and i couldn't find a thing. everything is spotless, all the hosing is good. the slides and butterflies are functioning perfectly. floats and needles all fine, diaphgrams fine, choke linkages etc all fine.
the TPS is definately performing ok as far as i can tell. the only way to know is to find yet another one and try it on the bike really isn't it?
Your right, it can't be the PAIR system.
however, if synchronising the carbs made the problem worse then it surely points at carbs doesn't it? what can it be though? jets perhaps? i have gone through them meticiously, i mean a really fine toothcomb job and i couldn't find a thing. everything is spotless, all the hosing is good. the slides and butterflies are functioning perfectly. floats and needles all fine, diaphgrams fine, choke linkages etc all fine.
the TPS is definately performing ok as far as i can tell. the only way to know is to find yet another one and try it on the bike really isn't it?
<a><img></a>
Good practical advice LSM
I've been doing a bit more research on your problem Zixxer, especially after all you've now tried with no cure found yet. But at least you're narrowing it down
What I have comer up with however is the possibility of the Pulse generator coil breaking down. Apparently it's more noticeable at higher speeds rather than lower. The pulse generator coil is part of the ignition system and is located behind the waterpump/clutch casing.
Info on testing it without removing it etc is in the Haynes workshop manual if you've got one.
I'm not sure if this, what Bikerpiker mentions (in his quote below) is referring to the same thing, but it does sound like it
I've been doing a bit more research on your problem Zixxer, especially after all you've now tried with no cure found yet. But at least you're narrowing it down
What I have comer up with however is the possibility of the Pulse generator coil breaking down. Apparently it's more noticeable at higher speeds rather than lower. The pulse generator coil is part of the ignition system and is located behind the waterpump/clutch casing.
Info on testing it without removing it etc is in the Haynes workshop manual if you've got one.
I'm not sure if this, what Bikerpiker mentions (in his quote below) is referring to the same thing, but it does sound like it
bikerpiker wrote: I had symptoms very much like yours ,albeit at lower revs ,the pick-up coil /sensor was prone to fail ,so check that as well,if you havnt already...i bought a new one and even it was out of spec , also my coils gave an in-tolerance reading when cold, but were way out when hot, to find this out i set up a remote petrol tank ,so i could check em instantly without having to remove everything and therefore giving em time to cool