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OK so its getting off the subject a bit but Soldiers dont fight for a cause in the end they fight for each other, to stay alive, and as for atrocitys and such only the victors write the history, you make up your own mind .
Student are by nessesity bleeding heart left wing "the state should pay" untill they graduate earn big buckes and become right wing facist ba....d "why should i pay for some else", dont you think thats what the government wants ,after all were paying for other peoples finantial rock ups

Anyway "isnt what" ?

...and equating students with soldiers in the starting topic isn't?

I wasn't equating, I was contrasting. Subtle diference, shame it was lost on you.

A couple of things to add.

I think I'm right but foreign student have always paid more for the courses if they come from outside the EU. That's why university (some) like them so much as they bring in a lot of cash. Courses canceled for my oldest as they ran a course for these guys over our guys because they could brink in more £ for the uni.

Second, I'm under no illusion that any government in power today here in the UK would have had to make similar budget cuts. We, as you and me know can not go on for ever spending money we do not earn, why is it us that understand this and politicians forget this as soon as they arrive in Westminster...... Expenses ?????

The two biggest problems we have are these two simple facts
We now have over 50% employed by the government up from 10% after the first world war, some of these are worthy job's but do not generate revenue and we need to generate revenue, that's best served by making some thing.... Managers managing managers as in the case of my local hospital is just not sustainable.

And as a generation who started work at 16 to 20 we will work and pay taxes for 45 years or more. Our children start work on average 10 years later than us and by default will have to pay more tax as they will only generate taxes for 35 years not 45. And will have to pay more tax to pay for us in our old age as we are all living longer.

Like TonyMon has a vested interest I have been through this in the last 7 years. I paid for my first to go through uni and then pay twice as much 4 years later for my second........ I paid as I could just afford too, I would have done as much as I could keep them out of the mire..

All I know is that there is no simple solution, talk and rant and protest to get your point across, the violence only turns me against any cause. This is my own personal view. Feel free to discuss.

By the way, I like this forum as we get a great thread (serious) every now and them.

Happy crimbal and humbug to you all

I think the way the student protesters have behaved is disgusting and unforgivable.

I am sorry but no one has a right to a university education, people go for one of two reasons, to get a better job and earn good money or get pissed and waste a few years of their life, either way why should they not pay the going rate ?

If I want to make my life better by earning more money I have to invest and take risks / make important financial decisions to try and get a result.

I have nothing against a university education and realise it is the only way to go for people who have specific goals, but its not a right, its a choice.

In these economic times nobody can be expect to be carried and a reality check is due I feel.

We have paid three times now
Me
Daughter
Son

Go out and sign for a 100 grand mortgage, or a nice 20 grand car, 15 grand kitchen, why not pay for an education taxpayers have already paid for the first 13 years so you pay for the rest.
One good thing that does come out of it is when the lecturer fobs you off with i havent got the time to see you or discuss your query you can trot out listen mate i'm paying for this i will have my moneys worth, couldnt do that before !

Oh and Stratman was that comment aimed at me, or Wicky

vtwin wrote: If I want to make my life better by earning more money I have to invest and take risks / make important financial decisions to try and get a result.

our chris went to uni, got 3 science degrees, spent 2 years on the dole then got a 12k job as a lab technician in a school.
i left school at 16, had a year off, then did 2 consecutive apprenciceships, a string of shitty jobs and now earn 3 times that.
on my top line that is.
i pay more tax each month now than i got wages 20yr ago.
no tax credits, no housing benefit, no free school meals & uniforms, full council tax etc so in effect i am no better off financially than an immigrant on minimum wage putting lids on pies.
so imo in the current economic climate and tax culture of this country, there is absolutely no point in trying to better yourself if that involves working for an employer.
the only possible benefit in getting a degree these days is it's possibly a ticket out of this shithole - and those who do decide to migrate won't have to face the debts the govt is forcing on them.

fair enough, if tuition fees are here to stay, why charge interest on them?
it's the interest on the loans that will cripple people.
say your daughter goes to uni, furthers her education... at 20 is decides to get wed, get a house, start a family etc as is considered normal...
what chance have they got of getting on the property ladder if they are saddled with tens of thousands in uni debt?
as someone else said, these short term solutions only create problems further down the line but the people who are making the decisions are too shortsighted to see beyond their term of office.

ok the thuggish actions of a few are unacceptable - but also the thuggish actions of the police are unacceptable too on defenceless unarmed young people.
wait til it kicks off proper.... the old image of british people shrugging their shoulders and taking it from behind from the govt are numbered.
you might feel it doesnt concern you - i'm alright attitude... that's the kind of sh1t that's got us in this mess.
look at othercountries - they dont take it lying down, even the fkin frogs ffs.
& i wouldnt mind, but none of us voted for the govt thats making these decisions anyway, wtf is all that about in a so called democracy?
all these decisions that affect us all should be decided by public referendum, not by a group of snooty pricks out of touch with the real life.
it's simple. any countrywide policymaking could easily be decided with a ticklist on a voting card at your local polling station.

capital punishment
mandatory life for rapists & beasts
life for carrying a gun
15yrs for a blade
death by wreckless driving
the euro
the euro budget
immigration - non english speakers and unskilled barred
toll roads / pay as you go
public tagging / afr - breach of human rights
do we need a military?
and fnally - education fees.

Graduated 2008 with over 20 grands worth of student dept?

Surely being a graduate one would be able to spell what one's been lumbered with!
Sorry fella, couldn't help myself.

Steve97 wrote:Oh and Stratman was that comment aimed at me, or Wicky

No, not towards you. I hate it when people make there own inferences from something I haven't said. I never said, ir meant "all soldiers good, all students bad" but I can't see how anyone could support, either overtly or tacitly, such violence as was seen in London last week.

Oh, and I also noticed the "dept" mistake but was far too kind to point it out

Well said Benny

We really ought to stop messing around in other peoples buisness, why the f..k are we still in Europe, dont want to think what that costs us, and what do we actually get for our estimated 40mil a month, european workers, who send thier money home, pay as little as possible into the system, we had a Romanian girl who pulled a knife on me and my missus trying to rob us for a cigarette as we walked the dog near home (they work on the land) she didnt get what she wanted. and no i didnt report it to the police, being ex military have friends in the police and the general concensus was it wont make any diffrence. am not knocking the police we would be really fu...d without them.
Sounds corny, but we the people need to take control of our own country, and show these multimillionaire politicians that they work for us, theres a couple of good ones, you know the type, never heard of them ,solid reliable backbencher, nose to the grindstone, keeps the expenses to a minimum, is aware the he/she IS A PUBLIC SERVANT
So what happens when this coalition gets voted out in a couple of years ? Lib Dems are now stuffed because of Clegg, Labour will just create more debt, beaurocracy, human rights waffle, health and safety waffle, ect ect


Would i leave, emmigrate, no thats just running away, i love my country but there will be trouble

We really ought to stop messing around in other peoples buisness

A lot of our problems stem from the fact that historically we couldn't stop messing around in other people's business and now reap the "reward". I heard General sir Richard Dannat at a local dinner a few months ago who said much the same.

There are thousands of UK workers throughout Europe too, don't forget.

Anyway, Soldiers will always shift snow,fight fires etc

But just mabye in five years time when the Afgan is over, and all the ex military charitys have moved on, and most of them lads are out in civvy street , with their nightmares, and nobodys there, all it takes is one voice and something to believe in....