help cold starting a vtr 1000

[sebjones92]

also does anyone have a comments on the neutral switch/sensor?

"will the neutral switch stop the engine starting? I snapped the cable while changing the oil filter due to the awkward mounting on the buggy, from bike I have owned in the past the neutral switch actually stops the engine cranking over rather than just let it turn over and not start (like a killswitch normally does) but maybe I'm wrong"

[fabiostar]

if you broke the wire id be fixing it and at least you will know thats not the problem..

[sebjones92]

update guys... got both pistons out, you're right pretty awkward job but its possible, putting them back in will one the tricky part, I'm trying without removing the oil pump, so far its going alright.

Im not a mechanic so again not 100% on signs to look for here...but pretty sure there is evidence of ring blow by the colour of the bottom of the bores, as for the condition, the different colours on the top and bottom but doesn't seem to be any scratches or scuffs. Piston in cylinder 1 was worse that cyl 2, see rubbing marks on both sides and the top two rings were almost 'rusted' in place, so much so I had to pop them out with a small screwdriver - so obviously weren't doing a good job of sealing the bore.

Appreciate as many comments as you can throw at me! will the cylinders be ok with a clean and light hone? or machined smooth then oversize rings anything like that? as for the pistons...personally I'd think its worth replacing them simply because of the amount of work to do so, but do you think they actually need replacing? Or could the rings be the sole problem?

Thanks guys. appreciate this.

[tony.mon]

New pistons are cheap, currently about £20 each, so you might as well.
Any skirt wear at all is bad news, normally even with old engines there's no visible skirt wear.
A light hone is a needed but sometimes you end up with too much ring end gap if then refitting std size rings.
Setting the end gaps at the right places to minimise blowby and maximise compression is essential.
Haynes covers it well.
Brace yourself for the cost of ring sets....

[sebjones92]

Wish I was still living in the UK then at £20 each!! New piston and rings here are $285 from the dealer, so about £130, still will be worth doing. I think I'll take the block in to my local machinists to get the cylinders measured and honed, hopefully they are both still pretty round and don't need boring. Dependant on the measurements after honing I might have to look at oversized Pistons/rings.

Any ideas what would have caused the rings to almost seize in place? And cause the rust build up?

Thanks for you'r help tony.mon

[tony.mon]

Usually the cause is sitting around a damp storage unused for years.if the engine happens to have stopped with the exhaust valves open damp air gets in.
A small amount of corrosion on the rings locks them in place.
Why not buy pistons and rings from wemoto in the UK and pay postage?

[KermitLeFrog]

Why not buy pistons and rings from wemoto in the UK and pay postage?

Not sure about NZ but my mate's just got some stuff from the States and got hit for VAT and "processing" charges which upped the cost considerably.

I picked them up from the postie who said they often open any parcels to check if the delaration and value is correct and sting you even more if it isn't. But that's the UK.

[sebjones92]

yeah its the same story here, you have to pay a customs fee for any incoming goods, which isn't too much, but they do random check about 1 in 4 parcels get opened and then you get charged for their time, and 20% GST (VAT) on the items nz value. I've been caught out before from parts from america and ended up not worth the hassle so I'll just get them from here.

cheers and happy new year to all from nz

[sebjones92]

just ordering some parts, I don't know the year of my engine. Am I right in saying the vtr 1000 F's are they same engine setup between 98 and 05? I know its in that era, engine code SC36? does that sound about right?

cheers

[Wicky]

Roughly the same as there were some very minor changes in '01. What colour are your engine cases? Grey or gold grey? and at the front of the engine on the clutch cover side is there a coolant overflow hole or spigot?

[sebjones92]

cases are grey. there is an 8mm bolt at the front right for draining the coolant? above the starter if i remember rightly ?

[bigtwinthing]

Hire an internal micrometer and measure the bores after you have done any cleaning just to check. take the readings as per info on the web.

Then see whats permitted. It may save you messing about rebuilding when you have an oval bore etc.

[sebjones92]

bit of a wait sorry guys, block is at my machinists getting measured and honed, only a simple job I know but might as well get him to do it. Ring gaps were above service limit, by a fair bit around 0.2mm over, so I'll get a slightly oversized piston and rings to suit once I have the final measurements of the bore.

Thanks for your help on this - I'll be in touch once she's back together without any problems hopefully.

Cheers guys

[bigtwinthing]

make sure you space the rings but not on the Thrust side etc.

[sebjones92]

bad news, cylinder 2 is .25 out of round, so I would need to strip the crankcase down to get them bored...he think's its somehow got dust/dirt inside the chamber for the cylinder to wear as much as it has, he thinks these cylinders should do 100,000k's easy?

So at this stage I'll have a look for a replacement engine, the cost of stripping down the crank, rebuilding with more than likely new big end bearings, full gasket set, getting cylinders bored etc etc wouldn't have thought it will be worth while. I'll see what I can find