will you have to beef up the springs in the front forks malc, assuming the old viffer is a fair bit heavier than a vtr
Re: VFR750/Storm crossbreed race bike project.
Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:19 pm
by popkat
agentpineapple wrote:will you have to beef up the springs in the front forks malc, assuming the old viffer is a fair bit heavier than a vtr
On the Storm I have .85 springs, the VFR will be a little heavier so you would think something like .95 would work but the VFR has different geometry, the best simple way to describe it is if the Storm pushes down on the front the VFR seems to push forward due to the head angle being more shallow, this was so they had stability with a smaller front wheel. I will talk to Maxton before deciding on which spring, as for oil i'll probably go with the known 140 air gap and 10 weight oil. Also I will be raising the rear a fair bit so what I just said about pushing may not be an issue.
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Re: VFR750/Storm crossbreed race bike project.
Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:28 pm
by Cadbury64
Early VFR's are actually pretty light at a claimed 199kg dry; just 6kg higher dry weight than the VTR1000. Like many of us, they put on weight in later years...
Re: VFR750/Storm crossbreed race bike project.
Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:13 pm
by Varastorm
Bored tonight so I've been doing some research.
Apparently a chap called Fred Merkel raced them back in the day
Fred Merkel's VFR750 superbike racer. It wasn't an RC30 either - it was an FG/FH roadbike with some ideas and money thrown at it.....
Honda also made the VFR '6X'
A very special VFR750F called the '6X', a 135 hp@13000RPM / 188 mph full HRC prototype using RVF cycle parts and containing titanium valves, magnesium cases and flat-slide carburetors, weighing 165 kg (dry), even less than the factory RVF, was first seen ridden by Wayne Gardner at a Suzuka test against TT F1 machinery. Wayne trounced the opposition, smashing his four-stroke lap record by 1.5s. 6 Examples of the '6X' were built, 4 for the Domestic Championships and 2 for the American Championships.
The VFR '6X' was raced at the Isle of Man TT by Geoff Johnson, coming in 2nd to Joey Dunlop in both the F1 and Senior TT.[3]
In the United States Fred Merkel and Wayne Rainey contested the 1986 AMA Camel Pro Championship, which at the time had both Superbike and F1 races but only one championship, with the best finish of the day counting. Merkel just rode in the Superbike while Rainey did the F1 as well. Merkel won two races and Rainey seven, but the championship was won by Flyin' Fred Merkel by only two points.
For 1987 Fred's bike was passed to Bubba Shobert who took 3rd place in 1987, being beaten by Wayne Rainey and Kevin Schwantz. The points he earned during the 1987 season gained him victory in the AMA Grand National. In 1988 Shobert won three of the seven races to win the AMA superbike championship.[4][5]
The engine developed in the 6X became the basis for the factory racer, the VFR750R. An engine race kit was available for the 1986 VFR from HRC for $4,000 (USD), including a titanium exhaust.
Nice bit of RC24 history
They might have got some idea's for the RC30 and lots of info but it's a different engine and has different firing order which is the same as the earlier VF750 (chocolate cam version)
There was also the Famous 1986 transatlantic race where Ron Haslam finished 3rd on a standard VFR road bike in the wet, his Factory F1 bike (the older VF I believe) had blown up the day before so they got one from a showroom and worked on it overnight, it had an Astralite front wheel to fit the wet front tyre and was converted to righthand gearchange.
There's quite a few 6X reps around the world, some of the ones done in Japan look very good.
So much history for one model of bike, yet you can pick them up for pennies compared to some other bikes of the era, think I might buy some more and hoard them for a while.
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I like the colour scheme and may do mine the same as it's fairly straight forward (as in cheaper) I could have gone the CBR600 wheel route which would match the NSR wheels on the 6x bikes in looks but sticking with trying the VTR rear, if it proves to much grief i'll go the CBR route both ends.
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Re: VFR750/Storm crossbreed race bike project.
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:29 pm
by fabiostar
I was at those races at donni. not only was it wet it fecking snowed on me the whole way home up the M6 to the boat..
Re: VFR750/Storm crossbreed race bike project.
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:54 pm
by popkat
If progress keeps going this slow I don't know what year i'll be racing this thing
I got the rear wheel in place now and the alignment is good, the sprocket carrier has been machined down to fit the wheel in and move the sprocket in toward the tyre. it has temporary spacers but will be getting the proper ones done soon, they'll be captive, one running into the sprocket carrier bearing and the other through the caliper bracket. I need to buy a front sprocket and space it to get correct alignment of the chain.
Next stages are to order a seat unit, find some front calipers, remove swingarm and get a lug welded on for the torque arm, also find a chain slipper/guide as it's missing off the swingarm. also going to work on some rearset mounts to go onto the subframe, this will leave the broken original mount redundant and takes a weakness out of the equation.
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Re: VFR750/Storm crossbreed race bike project.
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:00 pm
by MacV2
Good work Malc...Std Storm callipers any use ? I have a few sets laying around. hahahaha
Re: VFR750/Storm crossbreed race bike project.
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:05 pm
by popkat
MacV2 wrote:Good work Malc...Std Storm callipers any use ? I have a few sets laying around. hahahaha
If I can't find any F4 CBR ones then I might have to have some
Can you have a rummage when you can to see if you've got a Storm rear master cylinder, I'm up at Christmas but only for a couple of days, hopefully find a time to meet up and I can sort you out for the wheel/pick up any other odds and sods I might need
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Re: VFR750/Storm crossbreed race bike project.
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:25 pm
by MacV2
popkat wrote:
MacV2 wrote:Good work Malc...Std Storm callipers any use ? I have a few sets laying around. hahahaha
If I can't find any F4 CBR ones then I might have to have some
Can you have a rummage when you can to see if you've got a Storm rear master cylinder, I'm up at Christmas but only for a couple of days, hopefully find a time to meet up and I can sort you out for the wheel/pick up any other odds and sods I might need
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Deff have a rear M/C...the way things are going I'll prob be around all over Xmas...I know I have a fracture clinic on the 23rd...
Re: VFR750/Storm crossbreed race bike project.
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:28 pm
by bigtwinthing
Malc where ya gonna race it?
Re: VFR750/Storm crossbreed race bike project.
Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:17 am
by popkat
bigtwinthing wrote:Malc where ya gonna race it?
Hoping to have it ready to test for a Classic bike track day at Donington in early May, then race it Donington in August, Angelsey in September and Brands Hatch in October. A long way off but it's a slow build due to time and money..
To anyone interested.
This is the track day event which combines a show and a 4hour endurance race over the same weekend, if anyone reads MCN this is where the very rule stretching Katana Suzuki are building will be racing.. Track day does up to 1995 bikes (road or race) but they will let a Firestorm in as long as it's a road bike with road bodywork, you just need to ask them before booking but they will allow them.
lloydie wrote:You can fit a full blade swing arm and wheel .
Just need to remove 8mm from the inside face of the frame in order to get it to fit, but other than that it drops straight in and even the linkages etc bolt up without any problems (so I've read )
Unfortunately it's a different frame. Rc36 not rc24
May still be possible though.
I've seen a standard rc24 with a fireblade front end do the classic tt.
So if it can endure that.....
Roger
Re: VFR750/Storm crossbreed race bike project.
Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 4:55 pm
by freeridenick
popkat wrote:
bigtwinthing wrote:Malc where ya gonna race it?
Hoping to have it ready to test for a Classic bike track day at Donington in early May, then race it Donington in August, Angelsey in September and Brands Hatch in October. A long way off but it's a slow build due to time and money..
To anyone interested.
This is the track day event which combines a show and a 4hour endurance race over the same weekend, if anyone reads MCN this is where the very rule stretching Katana Suzuki are building will be racing.. Track day does up to 1995 bikes (road or race) but they will let a Firestorm in as long as it's a road bike with road bodywork, you just need to ask them before booking but they will allow them.
I like the look of that. I contacted them about my track 'storm but they won't accept it. I thought this reply from my email thread might interest a couple of folks on here though:
Hi Nick,
Now interestingly a Moriwaki rep would get you our thumbs up, but arguably that would still be rather collectable!!
At present I'm really sorry to say it doesn't fit as you've already guessed. We hate saying 'no', but hope you understand . . . and if you decide to go all Moriwaki on it, please let us know!!
Thanks for the comments about the event too - it's coming together very nicely and we're working hard to make it's as good as everyone hope's it will be! We hope you'll be able to attend too.
Mine would be a sad mutton dressed as lamb fake, but...
Update - just hadn't email from Darin at Endurance Legends suggesting we might want to come along as a club.
