Front Head Removal

[sirch345]

Darkember, as Lloydie says TDC is correct, but it needs to be on the compression stroke.

If you were careful with a drill etc could you not drill and tap the stud out in situ after removing the headers?

Nope, it's far too easy to snap the broken stud extractor in the stud.
Then you are in trouble.

+ 1

Don't others say it's the first bit of the cylinder head around the stud that is the problem (6mm in depth), and have managed to cut that part away with a dremel releasing the sheared off stud,

Chris.

[darkember]

Don't others say it's the first bit of the cylinder head around the stud that is the problem (6mm in depth), and have managed to cut that part away with a dremel releasing the sheared off stud,

Chris.[/quote]

Done that but the stud still sheared off & I don't fancy cutting any more off. In fact I may even slice the same amount off the other one to even them out once I get the dastardly stud removed.

[tony.mon]

If you end up removing the thermostat housing, have a good look at the blind, capped off outlet- it's easy to put one of the tubes onto it and then get very confused- there looks like there are too many outlets for the number of pipes.

[darkember]

If you end up removing the thermostat housing, have a good look at the blind, capped off outlet- it's easy to put one of the tubes onto it and then get very confused- there looks like there are too many outlets for the number of pipes.

Thanks Tony, hopefully it wont move too far

[sirch345]

Don't others say it's the first bit of the cylinder head around the stud that is the problem (6mm in depth), and have managed to cut that part away with a dremel releasing the sheared off stud,

Chris.

Done that but the stud still sheared off & I don't fancy cutting any more off. In fact I may even slice the same amount off the other one to even them out once I get the dastardly stud removed.

So that trick doesn't work for all of them. No I'm sure you don't want to be taking any more off.

Good luck with it,

Chris.

[popkat]

In your first post you say the stud has snapped flush, this is ideal if you have to drill it out, Is it just the stud or have you broken a stud extractor in there ?, if not then file the stud end smooth, centre punch it and drill it out (have a new stud to hand to see how far you need to drill) start with a good 3mm drill and be careful, lots of lube and not too much pressure, keep pulling the drill back to clear swarf, work up in drill sizes, get a helicoil/timesert set (around £20) then fit the insert and new stud. There's not many bikes with such easy access to drill a stud out, just go careful and there should be no need to remove anything but the front downpipe.

[darkember]

In your first post you say the stud has snapped flush, this is ideal if you have to drill it out, Is it just the stud or have you broken a stud extractor in there ?, if not then file the stud end smooth, centre punch it and drill it out (have a new stud to hand to see how far you need to drill) start with a good 3mm drill and be careful, lots of lube and not too much pressure, keep pulling the drill back to clear swarf, work up in drill sizes, get a helicoil/timesert set (around £20) then fit the insert and new stud. There's not many bikes with such easy access to drill a stud out, just go careful and there should be no need to remove anything but the front downpipe.

No extractor stuck in there as yet. I have 3 options,

1: Drill in situe & attempt using a stud extractor risky due to having to work upside down & the potential to snap the extractor. As I've had no joy with the dremel method I think I will not attempt this method.

2: Drill in situe again but oversize to then fit a helicoil set. This is a possibility, what size helicoil will be needed & the final drill size to use to fit the helicoil?? I am not keen on drilling in situe & have been advised against it.

3: Safest option to remove head & take it to my local engineering shop.

[Wicky]

Best do option 3 with the luck your having….

[lloydie]

Best do option 3 with the luck your having….

+1

[darkember]

Best do option 3 with the luck your having….

Exactly my thoughts, plus side it will give me the confidence for future jobs.

[popkat]

I disagree..
The helicoil or timesert kits should come with the correct drill in the box, just make sure you get the depth right, I think it's 8mm you need but not 100% sure, measure a good stud to confirm. I recently did four studs on a 1200 Bandit, had to remove the front wheel and forks plus the right side frame rail but got it do with the engine still in and intact. The firestorm has no restrictions in access to the bolts, if your not confident about drilling out a small stud should you really be taking the cylinder head off ?.

Can you not get someone who has a little experience to help and drill it out for you.

[darkember]

I disagree..
The helicoil or timesert kits should come with the correct drill in the box, just make sure you get the depth right, I think it's 8mm you need but not 100% sure, measure a good stud to confirm. I recently did four studs on a 1200 Bandit, had to remove the front wheel and forks plus the right side frame rail but got it do with the engine still in and intact. The firestorm has no restrictions in access to the bolts, if your not confident about drilling out a small stud should you really be taking the cylinder head off ?.

Can you not get someone who has a little experience to help and drill it out for you.

Yes you had to remove a lot more stuff but on the 1200 you are pretty well sitting upright to drill, not lying on your back to boot this stud has already blunted 1 drill bit. The dremel & impact driver method did not work which is telling me something. As for removing the cylinder head, that's easier to do than breaking a drill bit in the stud.

Incidentally, you seem very confident in the drilling method & your only down in Devon, fancy a weekend break in sunny Wales

[popkat]

I disagree..
The helicoil or timesert kits should come with the correct drill in the box, just make sure you get the depth right, I think it's 8mm you need but not 100% sure, measure a good stud to confirm. I recently did four studs on a 1200 Bandit, had to remove the front wheel and forks plus the right side frame rail but got it do with the engine still in and intact. The firestorm has no restrictions in access to the bolts, if your not confident about drilling out a small stud should you really be taking the cylinder head off ?.

Can you not get someone who has a little experience to help and drill it out for you.

Yes you had to remove a lot more stuff but on the 1200 you are pretty well sitting upright to drill, not lying on your back to boot this stud has already blunted 1 drill bit. The dremel & impact driver method did not work which is telling me something. As for removing the cylinder head, that's easier to do than breaking a drill bit in the stud.

Incidentally, you seem very confident in the drilling method & your only down in Devon, fancy a weekend break in sunny Wales

Your still at an angle drilling the Bandit studs. The firestorm studs don't point to the ground, they are angled down but it wouldn't be too hard to find a nice position to lay in to do the drilling, It's important to flat the end of the stud as best you can and centre punch it, then use good new drill bits and work your way up in size, don't let it get too hot. If you do happen to drill slightly off centre it's not so bad, you'll still get an insert in there and at worst slot the mounting collar slightly. you've got nothing to lose by giving it a go with the proper tools, if you do fcuk it up you were prepared to take the head off anyway, if not you've saved yourself a lot of grief.. In the end though it's your choice

[VTRDark]

Just take the head off, it's no big deal, accept the price of a head gasket. You don't need to worry about loosing the cam chain so much on the front cylinder as it will naturally hang over the front at that angle.

After the experiences I have had I would just get a good engineering shop to drill and re-tap. When I done mine I first tried drilling it out (even bought new Cobolt bits) on the bike and used heat, dremeled bits away etc etc Unfortunately I don't have access to a welder so just had a butane/propane mix decorators or chefs blowtorch I had no luck so took the head to a engineering shop which done a bad job partially my own fault as I had wombles around trying to get the stud out my self beforehand. One side he drilled and re-tapped, but the other required a helicoil as I had not got the drill centred spot on so when he drilled it out the hole was slightly bigger and/or off centre or something.

Anyway point being if taking it to an engineering shop to do, don't mess around with it yourself. Just get the head off (simple job) and take it to them. And second make sure it's a good engineering firm that know what they are doing. I now have another head with a broken stud to be re drilled and tapped properly to go on and replace the one on there now with the bad repair.

The other advantage to taking the head off is that it gives you the chance to give everything a good clean/de-coke, inspect valve heads and stuff. Best advice for removing the head....use a magnet on a stick to remove the cam buckets and shims (DO NOT drop any shims inside the engine) and put everything back in the same order it came out, so don't mix your shims and buckets up. A couple of the head bolts can be a bit awkward so make sure you have varied length (long and short) extension bars for your Torque wrench.

(:-})

[darkember]

Head back from the engineering shop today. They did a great job too







Tested with the flange no need to elongate the flange holes either. Top marks Dawson Engineering in Hereford