Yes, I Really Did Buy It This Way

[Wicky]

You won't go far wrong with these manual CCTs from your side of the pond: http://www.clems-garage.com/CCT/vtr1000 ... estorm.htm Tried and tested on many UK VTRs.

While you've got it apart a good time to put in a front cylinder vacuum take-off and some tubing for easy carb balancing later on. Very fortunate that the chain didn't skip the sprocket - that'll save you $$$$

[Big_Jim59]

You won't go far wrong with these manual CCTs from your side of the pond: http://www.clems-garage.com/CCT/vtr1000 ... estorm.htm Tried and tested on many UK VTRs.

While you've got it apart a good time to put in a front cylinder vacuum take-off and some tubing for easy carb balancing later on. Very fortunate that the chain didn't skip the sprocket - that'll save you $$$$

Yep, I am a lucky guy, I hope. I won't know if that really was the noise until I get the old adjuster out. Now I can spend the money on new chain, sprockets, mirrors and such. I plan to look into the carbs, while they off, to do the jet mods since it has the Two Brothers system. I am pretty sure no one has touched the jetting.

I like the idea of a carb balancing port that I can tuck in behind the frame when not needed.

[NZSpokes]

You won't go far wrong with these manual CCTs from your side of the pond: http://www.clems-garage.com/CCT/vtr1000 ... estorm.htm Tried and tested on many UK VTRs.

While you've got it apart a good time to put in a front cylinder vacuum take-off and some tubing for easy carb balancing later on. Very fortunate that the chain didn't skip the sprocket - that'll save you $$$$

Yep, I am a lucky guy, I hope. I won't know if that really was the noise until I get the old adjuster out. Now I can spend the money on new chain, sprockets, mirrors and such. I plan to look into the carbs, while they off, to do the jet mods since it has the Two Brothers system. I am pretty sure no one has touched the jetting.

I like the idea of a carb balancing port that I can tuck in behind the frame when not needed.

I have it set like that and have a right angle screwdriver for the adjuster. A balance is 10 mins.

[sirch345]

It's Saturday and I finally got to the bottom of things. I got the rest of the bike apart and pulled the radiators for good measure. It only takes a little longer and it is a huge advantage to be able to see everything clearly. I checked the valve timing and the marks align perfectly. I checked the valve clearances on the front cylinder and all were spot on with the Honda manual's recommendations. My assumption is the noise is from a collapsed timing chain adjuster and the reason it quit running was from a lack of fuel. I'll know more when my parts come in and I replace the OEM adjusters. I am keeping my fingers crossed that I dodged the bent valve bullet. I will probably run a compression check just to be sure before I button it up.

Jim

What with the timing marks, and the valve clearances being spot on, that certainly sounds as if you were lucky there Jim
Doing a compression check later on is not a bad idea for piece of mind,

Chris.

[Big_Jim59]

What with the timing marks, and the valve clearances being spot on, that certainly sounds as if you were lucky there Jim
Doing a compression check later on is not a bad idea for piece of mind,

Chris.

I figure I can get the new manual CCTs installed, drop the battery in and spin the engine, checking compression so I know that part is fixed. There may be other things lurking that I just don't know about. You never know what's wrong when people decide to park or tear down a bike.

[VTRDark]

A bit late to the thread here. First off...Welcome to the forum Jim

Haynes manual....throw it in the trash or look at the piccies Actually it's not bad for wiring diagrams and a few specifications. Just don't follow their procedures to the letter when they say to remove your coolant before removing carbs etc.

Out of curiosity what mileage has the bike done. Unlucky with the tensioner failure there, but lucky it's caused little damage. Don't panic over the timing too much it sounds worse than what it is. For someone like yourself who's mechanically minded it shall be a breeze once you understand it. The same for removing heads etc. The VTR is a pleasure to work on, really simple, straight forward old school and plenty of room to work with.

Be aware that the timing can all look as it should. ie. crank and cam alignment marks align correctly visually but the timing can still be 180 degrees out if cams have been removed at all and timing messed with. If the timing is 180 out the bike is ridable but you will have more power at lower revs at the sacrifice of loosing higher revs. It will behave a little like a fuel starved bike.

Search for timing 180 out for more info


INFO

STARTING FROM TDC compression stroke on the REAR CYLINDER and MOVING TO TDC compression stroke on the FRONT it's 1.1/4 turn (450°) anti-clockwise at the crank.

STARTING FROM TDC compression stroke on the FRONT CYLINDER and MOVING TO TDC compression stroke on the REAR it's only 3/4 turn (270°) anti-clockwise at the crank.



(:-})

[Big_Jim59]

A bit late to the thread here. First off...Welcome to the forum Jim

Haynes manual....throw it in the trash or look at the piccies Actually it's not bad for wiring diagrams and a few specifications. Just don't follow their procedures to the letter when they say to remove your coolant before removing carbs etc.

Out of curiosity what mileage has the bike done. Unlucky with the tensioner failure there, but lucky it's caused little damage. Don't panic over the timing too much it sounds worse than what it is. For someone like yourself who's mechanically minded it shall be a breeze once you understand it. The same for removing heads etc. The VTR is a pleasure to work on, really simple, straight forward old school and plenty of room to work with.

Be aware that the timing can all look as it should. ie. crank and cam alignment marks align correctly visually but the timing can still be 180 degrees out if cams have been removed at all and timing messed with. If the timing is 180 out the bike is ridable but you will have more power at lower revs at the sacrifice of loosing higher revs. It will behave a little like a fuel starved bike.

Search for timing 180 out for more info


INFO

STARTING FROM TDC compression stroke on the REAR CYLINDER and MOVING TO TDC compression stroke on the FRONT it's 1.1/4 turn (450°) anti-clockwise at the crank.

STARTING FROM TDC compression stroke on the FRONT CYLINDER and MOVING TO TDC compression stroke on the REAR it's only 3/4 turn (270°) anti-clockwise at the crank.



(:-})

I will check the timing for 180 out position as you suggested. You can't be too careful when there are signs that other people might have been in there before you. If you time this V-twin wrong it won't have much power, like a Harley Davidson?

I have found the Storm to be child's play, so far, in comparison to any job on my VFR. Even the strip down was pretty straight forward and didn't leave the pile of parts I was expecting.

I appreciate you guys and all the help. You are a great confidence builder.

Oh. . .the bike has a little over 32,000 showing on the clock. It's a Honda. It's just broke in!

Jim

[Big_Jim59]

My parts came in so I replaced the original automatic CCTs with new manual ones. I still have not found a definitive source for the noise. I expected the failed CCT to be floppy or weak or something but it is not. At least it seems pretty tight to me. Am I missing something? What does a failed CCT look and feel like?

Oh, I turned the engine through and determined that the valve timing is in the correct degree position.

[sirch345]

My parts came in so I replaced the original automatic CCTs with new manual ones. I still have not found a definitive source for the noise. I expected the failed CCT to be floppy or weak or something but it is not. At least it seems pretty tight to me. Am I missing something? What does a failed CCT look and feel like?

Oh, I turned the engine through and determined that the valve timing is in the correct degree position.

I'm assuming the cam lobes were facing in the right direction for each cylinder when you did the valve timing check? The rear cylinder cam lobes should have been facing towards each other somewhat, and the front cylinder cam lobes should be facing away from each other somewhat when the timing marks were lined up for each cylinder.

A standard CCT can still cause the cam chain to flop about in the cam chain tunnel even if the spring has not broken in the CCT, it's just become weak and most likely, if you ran the bike some more miles it would snap,

Chris.

[Big_Jim59]

I'm assuming the cam lobes were facing in the right direction for each cylinder when you did the valve timing check? The rear cylinder cam lobes should have been facing towards each other somewhat, and the front cylinder cam lobes should be facing away from each other somewhat when the timing marks were lined up for each cylinder.

A standard CCT can still cause the cam chain to flop about in the cam chain tunnel even if the spring has not broken in the CCT, it's just become weak and most likely, if you ran the bike some more miles it would snap,

Chris.

Yep, cam lobes are as your describe. I turned the engine anti-clockwise and checked the compressing stroke position of each cylinder and it checks out. I just expected more play in the cam chain with a bad CCT and that kind of noise. I have my fingers crossed that this is the source of the sound. I am going to run a compression test next just to be safe.

[bazza696]

If she is still noisy when the manuals are fitted, pull the clutch in whilst she's running as the clutch basket on these bikes can make alot of noise when cold, and you mention it's cold there at the moment.

Other than that these engines are agricultural and some rattle more than others, you have to learn to live with it. I fitted a Moriwaki replica belly pan, and some of the engine noise reflected back at me, at first I thought the bottom end was failing.

Get on her, ride and get to understand her. It sounds strange but she will talk to you and tell you what's wrong once you know the signs.

Mine gets noisy and thumppy when she is due for an oil change, usually on cue around 2000 miles. Carbs spit back when they need balancing etc etc

[sirch345]

I'm assuming the cam lobes were facing in the right direction for each cylinder when you did the valve timing check? The rear cylinder cam lobes should have been facing towards each other somewhat, and the front cylinder cam lobes should be facing away from each other somewhat when the timing marks were lined up for each cylinder.

A standard CCT can still cause the cam chain to flop about in the cam chain tunnel even if the spring has not broken in the CCT, it's just become weak and most likely, if you ran the bike some more miles it would snap,

Chris.

Yep, cam lobes are as your describe. I turned the engine anti-clockwise and checked the compressing stroke position of each cylinder and it checks out. I just expected more play in the cam chain with a bad CCT and that kind of noise. I have my fingers crossed that this is the source of the sound. I am going to run a compression test next just to be safe.

Excellent, well done, that shows you've been paying attention
No harm in running a compression test for piece of mind,

Chris.

[VTRDark]

If she is still noisy when the manuals are fitted, pull the clutch in whilst she's running

Good call there...and your right about being a little agricultural. I also listen to the engine to talk to me.

(:-})

[Big_Jim59]

I see nothing, in the inspection of the top end, that shows any sign of wear or slop that would indicate a significant noise. You are right. There is significant mechanical activity going on in this engine at any given time during normal operation. As my old boss would have said "The cam chains are longer than a Kansas well rope!" I had a Diesel VW Jetta, years ago, that was so mechanically noisy it frightened people. I pulled into to a service center once with and the tech came running out in a panic. He thought it was a gas model and that it had a rod out in it. The look on his face was priceless when he opened the hood and smiled and said "Oh. . .little diesel!"

The plan is to give it one more check, install the valve covers and spin it with the compression tester in place. My gut tells me that all is OK. I will turn my attention to the carbs. It has been sitting so while they are off i am going to give them a good clean. I am also going to shim the needles and install a #48 pilot jet. Hopefully I will have it running by this weekend.

Jim

[lumpyv]

If she is still noisy when the manuals are fitted, pull the clutch in whilst she's running as the clutch basket on these bikes can make alot of noise when cold, and you mention it's cold there at the moment.

Other than that these engines are agricultural and some rattle more than others, you have to learn to live with it. I fitted a Moriwaki replica belly pan, and some of the engine noise reflected back at me, at first I thought the bottom end was failing.

Get on her, ride and get to understand her. It sounds strange but she will talk to you and tell you what's wrong once you know the signs.
Mine gets noisy and thumppy when she is due for an oil change, usually on cue around 2000 miles. Carbs spit back when they need balancing etc etc

bazza I never knew you were the fabled witham bike whisperer. ( and as for carlos ! )