Engine rebuild

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tony.mon
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Re: Engine rebuild

Post by tony.mon »

Did it myself.
Just a gentle clean and polish, didn't remove much material, but I smoothed out the gasflow from one of the exhaust ports.
The actual outlet from the head casting is offset; (unlike the inlet, where it's roughly central between the two valves ports, so straight runs) therefore one gas stream is nearly straight, and the other has to do two near 90 degree bends to get into the outlet, where the header joins the head.

So I smoothed the port inside radiuses, and hope to get more efficient exhaust gas flow out of the head. not mirror polish, as TBH that's wasted as soon as a little carbon builds up, but a small grindstone on a flexi drive, then hand finished with wet'n'dry. If I'd been a perfectionist I would have removed the valve guides before I started, but they're good, so I just worked round them.
So whatever I get, it's possible to improve on it slightly with a bit more time, effort and money.

It's all based on nothing more than my own observations, so I've no idea if this will work, or help, but it seems logical.

What I initially wanted to do was to each thing one at a time, with a dyno run in between, so that I could see which modifications made a difference, (if they did at all, and it wasn't to make things worse!) but in this case I will have fitted high comp pistons and gasflowed the heads at the same time. I suppose I could swap the gasflowed heads with standard ones and do another set of dyno runs, if I get odd results, such as fitting high-comps and gasflowing produces less power.

Here's hoping that a gain on one isn't cancelled out by the other :lol: :lol:

I'll still be able to do runs between each of three cam configurations, though, so hopefully will be able to see and feel a difference between those. The three options are:
1. Standard cams
2. reground cams- from Newman Cams in Kent- both approx 1mm more lift and 5-10 degrees more dwell (haven't measured them in situ yet) and
3. Can't remember without looking it up again, but the Superhawk forum techies reckon that one of the cams is actually ok, either exhaust or inlet, but the other one is a little......quiet, and that's what holds the engine power back. But the cams are interchangeable, and as I have at least two sets I want to try running the "good" ones on both front and rear (i.e. exhaust or inlet cams in both positions in both heads) to see what difference that makes.
(*EDIT- two exhaust cams in each head with suitably revised timing for the exhaust cam used as an inlet is what I'll be trying- thanks for the info, Mikstr :thumbup: )

With the third option, it'll be a cheap upgrade option (assuming it works) until the E-Blag price for those particular cams goes through the roof when word gets out :lol: :lol: :lol:
I may have to buy in a few sets before posting, as an investment :twisted:

I'll degree in each set, so that standard cam timing is used in each case, and use a control rear wheel and tyre (Thanks, Mac!) just on the bike for the dyno runs , so even if they're a week or two apart the conditions will be as equal as I can make them.

I love a little play, me.

Today (Saturday) is all about checking that there's enough clearance between valves and piston crown with each cam set, and making sure that the springs don't get coil-bound. (yes, Benny, I'll let you know :whatever )
Hopefully, all being well, I'll get the heads on tomorrow and turn the engine over on a spare starter to get oil round it thoroughly, then pick a weekend to swap engines. :clap:

More piccies to follow, and of course video of the start-up when that happens.....
Last edited by tony.mon on Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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benny hedges
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Re: Engine rebuild

Post by benny hedges »

tony.mon wrote: (yes, Benny, I'll let you know :whatever )

More piccies to follow, and of course video of the start-up when that happens.....
thank you kind sir :D
re the gas flowing.... sometimes it's better not to open the ports up too much as it can reduce gas velocity - some higher powered engines have better output than their predecessors even though they have smaller ports (but higher compression)
higher compression also = higher suction on the inlet stroke and baggying out the ports can negate this (so ive heard...)

what i used to do when porting 2 & 4 strokes is take a length of 8mm bar and file a flat on the end for the chuck, then cut a slot in the other end, 2" or so deep, then take a strip of linishing belt (like heavy duty emery cloth) and wind it with the chuck so you end up with a variable diameter flexible grinder that will get right in there.
reduce the grit grade down as the work progresses, finishing with a strip of cloth & solvol - gets a fantastic finish

done stacks of them in the past with this method & it works really well, gets into the parts you can't get at with a rigid grinder on a stick. :thumbup:
if you want to take it a step further you can use a old speedo cable as a flexible grinder shaft - grip the square drive end in the chuck and use the slotted drive end to grip the emery
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tony.mon
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Re: Engine rebuild

Post by tony.mon »

Agree re inlet ports, apparently the gas flow can "stall" and at lower revs particularly instead of a steady flow through the inlet you get the whole charge mixture trying to stop and start each time the valves open.

But exhaust side, as far as I can tell it's just remove any obstacles, smooth the flow and make sure there are no steps where the exhaust header fits into the head.

And from what I have been told, getting it to a mirror finish is a waste of time; smooth is fine, and removing the rough casting finish inside seems to be the main gain.

Benny, re clearances, I can confirm that with high comp pistons and my reground cams, giving just over 1mm more lift, the valves clear the pistons by more than 3mm at the normal cam timing settings.
I didn't compress them any more than that, because that gives a good safety margin and I didn't want to over-compress the standard valves springs (which were within tolerance so I re-used them).

Re gasflowing, I used a flexi drive, with little ball and drum shaped stones.
Pretty easy to get in from both directions, so no tricky stuff, just messy!
Then smoothed with wet'n'dry wrapped round my finger.

Right, both heads on and built up, standard cams in and timed, so just off to do valve clearances.
Bet I need to order a few.... :thumbdown: I've got quite a few, but having changed some over doing clearances for some of you lot, I ended up with several spares, and gaps in the set.

And once the reground cams go in, I'll need some very short ones, so they'll be special order.
Anyone got a part-used set they don't need any more?
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benny hedges
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Re: Engine rebuild

Post by benny hedges »

let us know what sizes youre after tony - in metric if you can as my imperial mic has walked :Argue 1:
got 2 boxes of shims and others ive collected over the years

good news on the valve - piston clearance (for me!)
won't be doing it for a while but the pistons are next on my list - after making it look pretty!
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sirch345
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Re: Engine rebuild

Post by sirch345 »

A very interesting read Tony, it sounds like it's all coming together very well. Good news about the valve clearance to the piston. On my old 650cc Triumphs many years ago we only replaced the inlet camshaft and kept the standard exhaust cams.

Chris.
tony.mon
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Re: Engine rebuild

Post by tony.mon »

Only needed one shim in the end; all the others just shuffled about and the few spares I had filled the gaps.

So Cheers, Benny, a shim apparently lost in the post as we speak :lol:

Not a lot going to happen this weekend, as I have a little trip to the south coast to do, collecting daughter who's been crewing a tall ship all week in the english channel and over to St Malo.
As compensation I've scored her a little Chinese knock-off scooter, 50cc, one mile on the clock, never been registered, for £300.

Staying overnight at a hotel as a sop for wife, for not whinging too much at the parts and me being in the garage for the last two weekends.....

But soon.....
It's not falling off, it's an upgrade opportunity.
tony.mon
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Re: Engine rebuild

Post by tony.mon »

Right!
Engine rebuild finished; this week I'll swap them over.

One small hiccup, unemployment struck again, my six month's probation meeting didn't go as planned and I find myself with time on my hands but no money once again.

So getting all of the planned dyno runs isn't justfiable at the moment financially.

But I can get the engine installed and run in, and will report on seat-of-the-pants outcomes pending funding for some dyno numbers, and then stage two, which involves putting the reground cams in and comparing them to the standard ones I have in for the moment.

Hopefully by the time it's properly run in I will have sorted employment (or booked lots of work from you lot) :thumbup: and will be able to dyno it.
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Beamish
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Re: Engine rebuild

Post by Beamish »

Good luck on the employment front Tony, bet you cant wait for that first run down the road 8)
I see myself as a sensitive intelligent man but with the heart of a clown that causes me to **ck things up right at that crucial moment........'Jim Morrison'
tony.mon
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Re: Engine rebuild

Post by tony.mon »

Starting engine swap today, pics and progress to follow :thumbup:
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sirch345
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Re: Engine rebuild

Post by sirch345 »

Good luck with the engine swap Tony, look forward too hearing all about it :thumbup:

Chris.
mik_str
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Re: Engine rebuild

Post by mik_str »

tony.mon wrote:3. Can't remember without looking it up again, but the Superhawk forum techies reckon that one of the cams is actually ok, either exhaust or inlet, but the other one is a little......quiet, and that's what holds the engine power back. But the cams are interchangeable, and as I have at least two sets I want to try running the "good" ones on both front and rear (i.e. exhaust or inlet cams in both positions in both heads) to see what difference that makes..
The exhast cam is said to be fairly aggressive while the intake is quite mild. In looking over various cam specs, it was found that the exhasut cam profile is somewhat close to the intake profiles from some of the aftermarket Stage 1 cams (notably Mori and Yosh). The suggestion was thus made that perhaps fitting exhaust cams on the intake (appropriately re-timed) would be a cheap way to get a bump in performance. IIRC, this is done quite successfully on SV650 engines....

FWIW, cams specs taken from Superhawk forum:

Open BTDC /Close ABDC /Lift (mm)/Lobe Center

MORIWAKI:
IN:: 22/ 53/10.3/105.5
Ex:: 53/16/10.1/108.5

YOSH:
IN::17/53/10.7/108
EX::55/15/10.7/110

Stock
IN::20/45/?/102.5
EX::50/15/?/107.5
99 VTR1000F Firestorm, a.k.a. The Carbon Express
tony.mon
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Re: Engine rebuild

Post by tony.mon »

http://s616.photobucket.com/albums/tt25 ... tup002.mp4

Apparently it works.

This was a genuine first try to fire it, I was quite pleased it caught so quickly, onto two as soon as the fuel went through into the front carbs, and ticked over straight off, but tickover was a bit slower than the last engine.

And it was four degrees air temperature, so the oil was like treacle!

Rode about twenty five miles, so I'll be doing an oil and filter change tomorrow.
I drained some oil out (as I'd slightly overfilled it) immediately after getting it up to operating temperature (about five minutes) and the oil was dirty already!
So a fresh lot of cheap Halfords bike stuff in the morning and a new filter, and that'll do for a few hundred, then some decent semi-synth before I start thrashing it into oblivion again.

Everything behaved, nothing rattled loose and all working except the fan didn't cut in, so I shall be wiring in an override switch for now. It won't be warm enough weather to get it up to hot for a few months anyway!

And I'm looking out for a better oil cooler and pipework anyway, so that should help, once sourced and fitted.
Last edited by tony.mon on Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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benny hedges
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Re: Engine rebuild

Post by benny hedges »

eheheh cool as crouton.... started up easy!
i'm impressed! :thumbup:
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sirch345
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Re: Engine rebuild

Post by sirch345 »

Brilliant Tony, well done mate :thumbup: that did start really well, I bet you were well chuffed :D

Great to see the video :thumbup:

Chris.
tony.mon
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Re: Engine rebuild

Post by tony.mon »

Latest update:

Now run in, feels strong, especially midrange.

But now the ice and snow is gone at last (after 4 weeks) I've been able to open it up, and the clutch slips when fully open over 7500, so a replacement clutch going in for 2011.
I have several spare sets, but as the clutch was the one that came out of the old engine and didn't slip then, I'm a little surprised. Maybe it could cope with the standard power but not the additional however many horses?

Anyway, I'll get that sorted and then I can get going with the dyno set with various cams and the modified airbox I have ready to go. One step at a time with a dyno run each time, so it should be possible to identify what makes a difference and what doesn't.

First thing is a baseline run once the clutch is ok, and as ever, I'll post the results.
It's not falling off, it's an upgrade opportunity.
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