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Not having been to Squire's I cannot comment on specifics of that incident obviously.
However, I agree with your point that to a greater or lesser extent we all "bend the rules" from time to time and it is part of the buzz in a way.
What I think separates the majority from the "nobs" is in the context of doing this at the "right time & place".
For example, its not that long ago that some uninsured chap lost it and chucked it into the crowd at Basset's Pole killing an unfortunate spectator.

At my local meet the other week a guy on a ZXR recently pulled a nice wheelie as he left. What he didn't do was carry on his way, but instead proceeded to do this several times to the point where he pi**ed everyone off as it's stuff like this that gets meets shut down.

Let's be honest, part of the bike thing is a little bit of "risk & rebellion" but some like to show off more than others - Bit like the car cruising brigade i suppose

Mike, sorry if the other thread ran off topic...not my intention, I was just replying to other comments made. Do apologise.

As regards your comments as made above, I agree to a certain extent. Nothing wrong with having a bit of fun. Nothing wrong with doing a wheelie or giving it some beans. I agree totally. Like you say, its all part of biking and I wouldnt have it any other way.

All I was trying to say is there is a time and a place. With the track record at Squires not getting any better at present I dont think messing about bang outside the cafe is going to do anyone much good. Not that any of that would have helped the poor chap that had the accident recently.

With all the things that have happened to some over the last 12 months and the effects thats had on some of members of this site maybe Ive just started to reflect a little more on biking in general.

My under lying point was that we cant argue about the actions of others (dangerous car drivers etc, etc) if we dont take responsibility for our own behaviour on a whole.

As Mike has probably read on another site I would not own a big capacity road bike if I could not use some of its capabilities. Its the whole point of owning a bike!. If you wanted to experience the smells sights and sounds at a more leisurely pace you would be riding a Bonnie or a cruiser. I fully intend to go that way once I am ready. I do not ride like a Richard but I do like to wind the Storm on and thunder down the road sometimes.
Thing is....solo Biking is selfish we are all well aware of the risks, so each to their own. My friend is a wheelie king and often stands his 748 on the back wheel but only when it looks safe. I cant do that so I dont, if I could I probably would

yep but there are those who take calculated risks for their own enjoyment mike, and then there are those who go beyond that - spurred by a need to impress others & gain kudos from peers. for me, that's where many tragedies originate.

The problem is IMHO when you start acting the goat where do you draw the line People have different ideas on how far one can go

One thing that really annoys me, is when out on a bike run with several hundred bikes, someone thinks it clever to pull a wheelie. It only takes him/her to fall off, then all of a sudden all the bikes close behind are now involved a massive pile-up through now fault of their own

Feeling better now, rant over

Good thread Mike

Chris.

Totally agree with you mike ,but the only thing id say is,prob every biker killed through speed or showing off thought it was safe to do so at the time
We all take risks,i know i do, not in built up areas, but out on the open roads,like the selkirk,moffat ones we were reffering to a while back as you say its the adrenalin rush.
Would i drive as fast if on a cruiser of some sort,probably not
I deff believe its all in the image,ie sports bikers tend to ride fast (even 'storms) ,i mean ,if im out in the car how many sportsbikes do i overtake ,not many if any at all,but have overtaken a good few cruisers,cos they dont feel the need to speed, it's about living up to the image i think
stevie

Very emotive topic you have started there Mike, but a very good one,

My take on the subject is this, and probably the same as others before, there is a time and a place for everything, the road outside of Squires is no place to be showing off, if you turn right you have a very short distance till you get to the railway bridge where to road narrows, go left and there's no point cos no-one will see you. I have been to bike meets when someone has decided to put on a "show" and to be honest, no-one cares anymore, a few nods of heads then you go back to checking out the bikes/totty/piss taking. I realised a couple of years ago that my sportsbike days where over and bought the Bonneville, now I can't imagine going back as it is just a pleasure to be able to ride without looking over your shoulder, worrying if the speed cameras are working etc etc, you can just ride!!!!!!! Please don't get me wrong I am no Angel and have my moments but they are calculated, what ever I do I still have a smile on my face when I get back to the house.
If anyone feels the need to be a "Nob" then book a track day, at least you know that the car drivers are'nt going to be a problem.

Nicely put mike
Lets be honest people part of the attraction of bike is the fact that there a bit dangerous every rider when they go out knows that there rolling the dice and your pitting your skill reflexes and road craft against the odds i.e. we all take calculated risks
When a bunch of your piers call you a nob then Usually then there’s a reason and nine times out of ten its because your calculated risk is involving innocent people either directly as a pillion or indirectly as a bystander or other road user and it’s the lack of consideration for others that’s getting you called
There’s a time and place for it just make sure it’s the right one before you do it

Well having replied to 'the other thread' and thinking there might be some reaction to that particular comment, I suppose I'd better throw in with this too.

bikerpiker wrote:Totally agree with you mike ,but the only thing id say is,prob every biker killed through speed or showing off thought it was safe to do so at the time stevie

If anyone thought they were going to be injured or worse doing anything, they'd more than likely not do it.

It would appear that this guys only failing, was to not expect and/or notice that the landrover had slowed or stopped. A simple error of judgment or a seconds lack of concentration ended up wih him paying the ultimate price!

I am impressed by wheelies, burn outs, all types of stunts on any type of bike. Extreame trials / motocross, The West Coast boys, I kmow Jack Frost too! (I have a very good collection of Crusty Demons of Dirt videos & DVD's).
As mentioned in other thread, I've never learnt to wheelie and only get the front wheel up accidentally. That doesn't mean to say I wouldn't, but I'd like to think that I'd do it 'responsibly' if there is such a time.

When I say that, I'm not having a dig at Mike or anyone else, it's just that 'A simple error of judgment or a seconds lack of concentration' is all it takes. (I'm sorta playing Devil's advocate here) Even by yourself miles from anywhere on a wide, straight, flat road - you could end up injured or worse. Is it fair on the person that comes across you, or the ambulance crew that assists you, have you been selfish? However, remote, it could and does happen.

Going rock climbing or MTB or any other pastime and getting injured, is that selfish or irresponsible - no, you didn't set out to be in that position - 'Sh1t happens'. It's a potentially dangerous thing you're doing or else you wouldn't do it.

Then there's riding like an absolute Tw@t - which some of us witnessed last September & from what I gather he hasn't changed.

It appears that some people are just out to impress whatever the cost to themselves or unfortunately, others. Peer pressure, bravado, need for adrenalin and a whole lot more reasons for bike antics. If nobody was impressed by burnouts stoppies, etc, then no one would bother.

I'm no angel when it comes to anything including riding motorcycles - there can be very few of us that are. But not just motorcycling, driving cars as well. Even off duty coppers flout speed laws on their bikes and in cars, so what does that say to the rest of us?

We are all falable, because we are human

I did have a point or two, not sure I've made 'em, being distracted, may edit later.

*

all i,l say mike is there's always a right time and place....directly outside a cafe packed with 3000 bikes isnt the right place imho.....5 mins before this lad died, a pillock as i call em pulled a full length wheelie, along the opp side of the road overtaking a few bikers....most there shouted idiot...it isnt that long ago a stunt boy ass came with stripped welded fighter and proceeded to do multiple wheelies untill he binned it into a brand new bmw coming the other way, i would have personnaly linched him, if he'd hit me...and he had the nerve to leave his helmet on and laugh!!!....yes were all guilty of speeding and even the odd wheelie( normally unintentional on my part) but its always in approriate places and defo not outside an heaving carpark, where plod is already trying to stop the meets!!!..imho its only a matter of time before there's speed humps outside or even more drastic measures...ive been going to there and the old cafe for the last 24 years and dont want such shenanigans to close and spoil my enjoyment...im sure alot of real bikers would feel the sqame way m8

forgot to put, that i realise this post IS directed at my comments mike...and maybe u do think i have done such things ....yes i have speeded 180 etc yes ive pulled wheelies, but always always on open roads, not where there's heavy traffic/people...at the end of the day were all responsible for our own actions, and personnaly after last years incident, i got rid of the tl to calm down, couldnt get on with the storm, didnt liek to go over 80 and lads that ride with me would testify...and have now ended up on a slow old cruiser so i dont feel the need to go daft( cant anyway)...and sure everyones entiled to there own opinion..and yes the rider from sat was part to blame( not observant enough)..RIP anthony steele(45)

was at squires sunday night & jasen said he asks the cops if they'd do something now like traffic lights on bridge & thier answer was not enough deaths ......they'll never close it down it took the cops & council 30 years to get cafe moved out of village ......stunt pilots eh..i allways say you cant ride like that forever, you get hurt & grow out of it or you die,,,just dont take anyone else out with you

i still reckon getting rid of all those trees either side of bridge would help lighten that area, and so make other vehicles easier to see, cos its pitch black under there..dont think traffic lights are the answer, some pillocks run red lights ...now 2 way camera's outside the cafe would surely stop any stunting!! and lets remember redbeck had to ban bikers after one stupid stunt ended in death there( gutted cos its closer to me )

Lee, in light of whats already been mentioned, me and a couple of mates were on about the very same thing yesterday.

Not that I get up to Squires half as much you, bob and some of the others do, but we were saying that they might look some kind of traffic light setup/camera system or traffic calming measure near the or outside the cafe. TBH it might help slightly...or move it somewhere else?