Difference between linear and progressive springs?

[Jimmieec]

Hi again everyone

Next question from a newbie!

I'm going to upgrade my springs and so far I'm aware of two different types. Linear and progressive.

Now what's the difference between the two and what would best suit the VTR? I've googled it but can't really grasp the difference haha. I was hoping one of you down to earth fellas could simplify it for me.

Obviously I've got standard springs on the front and they are hilariously soft.

Any input would be appreciated chaps

Jim

[mik_str]

progressive starts soft and gets progressively stiffer as it compresses. Linear has the same rate all the way through its stroke (or travel). One of the problems with progressive springs is that hydraulic damping is quasi-linear (ie. constant), so using a progressive spring with linear damping means that there will be one point during the stroke where the spring and damping will be balanced against each other, everywhere else there will be an imbalance which will create ill results (ie. excessive or insufficient damping). While progressive springs look good (to the uninitiated) at a glance, in practice, virtually none of suspension techs I have ever spoken to have recommended their use......

hope this helps

[VTRDark]

Linear are weight related spring (to your weight) that compresses the same all the way through and has better, more race orientated handling with more control.

Progressive as Mik said get progressively stiffer the further the travel. This is a generalised weighted spring, more of an all round if you like, and probably better if you do more touring than sport riding.

(:-})

[Jimmieec]

Linear are weight related spring (to your weight) that compresses the same all the way through and has better, more race orientated handling with more control.

Progressive as Mik said get progressively stiffer the further the travel. This is a generalised weighted spring, more of an all round if you like, and probably better if you do more touring than sport riding.

(:-})

So would a progressive spring be more predictable in every day riding? I will be using the bike for daily commuting but plan on taking it on the occasional track day too

[lloydie]

No a linear is more predictable as it's a constant .
The progressive is unpredictable as the spring rate is always changing .

Why would you want to upset the balance of the bike by fitting progressive springs in the forks and keep the linear rear spring ?.

I only fit linear springs as I can trust what it will do (when the suspension is set up !)
Just fitting springs on their own isn't enough you need to look into set up too .
Having the bike set up for your weight and riding style is key .

[Jimmieec]

If I was to fit a linear spring on the front would the rear need setting up differently too? I feels good at the rear just too soft at the front.

How would you go about setting up the front to my weight? I know you can buy different springs for different weights but would it need more playing about with? Dropping ride height etc?

Jim

[VTRDark]

Well said Lloyd.

Yeh getting into suspension and the whole set up is a learning curve in itself.
Here you go have a read up http://www.gostar-racing.com/informatio ... set-up.htm

On these bikes the front is generally too soft and the rear too hard. Getting the front sorted with new springs greatly improves things but may show the rear up to feel worse, if that makes sense. Get the front sorted first and then worry about modding the rear later if needs be with a new spring or totally new shock.

(:-})

[budd]

don't discount the progressive springs completely, I had Yacugar progressives in mine till recently, (I’ve now switched to linear) and while I think on balance I prefer the linear springs, the progressives were a major improvement over the OE ones (which incidentally are also progressive) and are in some circumstances superior to linear, particularly on rough pot holed roads (which are all too common nowadays), where the linear springs can get choppy and struggle to deal with poor surfaces the progressives are better able to cope and maintain better composure.

But it’s true on the track or on high speed well surfaced roads linear are definitely superior, with better control and predictability, I’ll be putting the theory to the test over the next few days.
I’ve just loaded the bike in the van and we are on the 2.15 am ferry to the Isle of Man, when I was over earlier in the year the bike was still equipped with the Yacugar progressive springs, now it’s got .90kg Race-Techs in it I’m hoping some of the vagueness it exhibited previously will now be banished. The Mountain course is the perfect place to show up suspension issues, fast, smooth with a mixture of low and high speed corners, I’m hoping for a measureable improvement which will make all the changes worthwhile. I’ll post my findings when I return in a couple of weeks, hopfully I'll have something positive to report.

All that said, the progressives do have their pros and if it’s day to day riding at moderate speeds they have a lot going for them, it’s only when you start to push a bit harder do the benefits of linear become clear, in the end it’s personal choice but you should make the choice based on the type of riding you actually do, if your even thinking about track days then go for linear, if you’ve no intention of going near a track then progressives may be the better option.

[VTRDark]

I’ll post my findings when I return in a couple of weeks, hopfully I'll have something positive to report.

Now that I look forward to reading. Have good time in the IOM. Lets hope the weather is good for you.

(:-})

[budd]

I’ll post my findings when I return in a couple of weeks, hopfully I'll have something positive to report.

Now that I look forward to reading. Have good time in the IOM. Lets hope the weather is good for you.

(:-})

So do I it's peeing done in Yorks at the moment, but the IOM is a law unto it's self it can be cracking the flags in Ramsey and lashing it down in Douglas, but I've got my fingers crossed for some sun because Dragon Corsas and rain aren't a good combination. Right time to go. got the wife, kids, dog and even the bloody hamster to load up should be fun

[VTRDark]

Right time to go. got the wife, kids, dog and even the bloody hamster to load up should be fun

I just had visions of the picture you posted (I think it was you) the last time you packed the van. I hope you have a seatbelt for the Hamster, Jeremy would be most upset if something happened to him.

(:-})

[budd]

Right time to go. got the wife, kids, dog and even the bloody hamster to load up should be fun

I just had visions of the picture you posted (I think it was you) the last time you packed the van. I hope you have a seatbelt for the Hamster, Jeremy would be most upset if something happened to him.

(:-})

Yeah it was me who posted the pic of the van loaded up last time we went over (Easter), and while it was still full it wasn't as bad this time,the last time I don't think I could have got another thing in there, funniest thing was when we were coming home last time and got stopped for a random security check, the officer with the sniffer dog ask me if I minded if he put the dog in to check for contraband (drug ,explosives or whatever) I said it's a bit full but your welcome to have a go, he took one look in the back and OH I see what you mean and didn't bother even trying, note to smugglers just fill yeah vehicle full of stuff and they won't bother searching it. And FYI the hamster 'Frenchie' (don’t ask!!) made it intact and had a lovely time, much like myself, it's always nice to get home in one piece

The bike behaved very well to, I say on the linear springs it's more stable and less prone to the very slight weave it had at Easter, but it's still tearing the rear tyre up see below


so I probably need to have a look at the rear spring / damper, won't have time to do anything with it before Wales it's a 'winter job' I think, although I think a new rear tyre is on the cards in the near future, I'll be going back to the OE 180-55 rather then the current (pictured) 180-60, for me the 60 profile offers more cons than pros, the larger diameter alters the ride height, it was very interesting with the 6mm spacer in and 10mm fork drop (and not in a good way) plus it nearly falls off the centre stand, also you can't get near the edge of the tyre, no the 60 profile experiment hasn’t given the benefits I’d hoped for.
Weather was great lots of sun which makes as nice change, it was windy though, ‘Windy Corner’ really lively up to its name, but generally weather was very good see pic below


This is the view from my in-laws front garden in Ramsey, it’s the view you want to see, if you can’t see the top of Snea-fell (visible in the far distance) then there’s no point getting the bike out!!!.
Here’s pic of the old girl in the pit lane, she doesn’t look to bad considering she’ over 17yrs old.

[VTRDark]

Thanks for the update. Good to hear how things went. New rear tyre time for you as well then. I'm in the same boat.

(:-})

[budd]

Thanks for the update. Good to hear how things went. New rear tyre time for you as well then. I'm in the same boat.

(:-})

It went well but it’s all down to the weather, last year was pretty poot IIRC, I was lucky this time.
If the weather is good the IoM is still probably one of the best places in the world to ride a motorbike less so than it used to be but still pretty special, but if the weather is bad it's usually really bad.
It must be heart breaking for the people who are making that ‘once in a lifetime’ trip to get there only to have foul weather, I’m fortunate to have family there and get over quite frequently, if the weather is bad I can console myself with the thought that there will be a next time,( and long may it continue ) although my in-laws aren't getting any younger so I better make the most of it while I can.

Re tyres, when it comes to this time of year and a tyre is past its best but not completely gone you've got to wander whether waiting till early new year to replace it is a better option, it would be nice to have new one in for Wales though, decisions, decisions!!