CCT Failure Survey

[colin_linz]

Hi Guys, I don't post much over this way, I usually hang out at the ozfirestorm bulletin board. I'm currently trying to build some data on Cam Chain Tensioner failures. To do this I have a short 10 question online survey that I hope to get VTR ridders to complete. The survey is for all VTR riders (F, SP1, SP2), and regardless of experiencing a CCT failure or not. The link to the survey is http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/VH7RB8R

Thanks
Col

[Pete.L]

Haven't heard of many SP1 or 2 failures. I think it's only the F model that goes, maybe you should look into converting a SP tensioner to a firestorm one?

Pete.l

[bazza696]

You will struggle with converting to an SP tensioner Dr they are hear driven cams. View don't need them, I believe that the cbr1100xx blackbird has the same tensioner and the same problem as the storm.

[colin_linz]

I had a bit of a brain fart when I put the survey together and forgot all about the SP's gear driven cams. The survey has been changed now.

Interestingly the same tensioners are used in a number of models, even the new moto2 engines seem to use them.

[marlbororman]

early blades have the same one too, was looking at my mates 94 blade and its identical (he has started to hear noises)

[benny hedges]

Haven't heard of many SP1 or 2 failures. I think it's only the F model that goes, maybe you should look into converting a SP tensioner to a firestorm one?

Pete.l

i think it would be easier to use the ccts off a cr500

re the survey - mine didn't fail but due to my riding style i thought it best to rip the oem ones out and put solids in before they took the knock.

[Pete.L]

Haven't heard of many SP1 or 2 failures. I think it's only the F model that goes, maybe you should look into converting a SP tensioner to a firestorm one?

Pete.l

i think it would be easier to use the ccts off a cr500

re the survey - mine didn't fail but due to my riding style i thought it best to rip the oem ones out and put solids in before they took the knock.

So when is someone going to invent a solid one with 1/4 inch of play (spring loading)in them so it can adsorb the different tensions required through out the rev range?
Surely that's got to be the way forward??

Oh, still can't find the tensioner on my bike...think it might have fell off

Pete.l

[benny hedges]

hydraulic driven cams is the future imo.
i had a brainwave invention once - like a chain & sprocket, but instead a small hydraulic pump driving a larger one, connected by stainless / flexible pipework....
i even bought some to experiment with - for a final drive it would be totally maintenance free, even variable ratios with an adjustable pressure relief valve feeding into a sump....
put a little air into it for a cush drive.

thought of designing an aftermarket bolt-on set to replace conventional drives...
then i found out that peugot invented it in 1904 the viscuous coupling they called it (or probably le coupling viscuousse)
i was miffed.

but imagine that for cam drive - a star shaped rotor driven by the same on the crank, nothing to break... virtually loss free and silent, no rattles, no wear!

[colin_linz]

Or, valves opened and closed by rare earth magnet voice coils. You could then vary the duration and lift of the valve. At the moment Evinrude are using this technology in their two stroke direct injection outboards. In this case they use the voice coil as an injector. It not only opens and closes like conventional injectors, but varies its stroke and creates a varied injection pressure to optimise the injected plume. They are capable of pressurising the fuel to 600psi.

[colin_linz]

I've attached a pdf of the survey results as they are at the moment. There are only 66 respondents, but the survey will be kept as a live document, so we will see what happens. The results seem to have settled into some consistency, I don't think there will be any great changes. Thanks to you guys that took the time to respond to the survey. I had good responses from here, Aust, and the US.

Here is a link to the pdf if you want to see it. http://tinyurl.com/24h7pd8

[IgorVigor]

hydraulic driven cams is the future imo.
i had a brainwave invention once - like a chain & sprocket, but instead a small hydraulic pump driving a larger one, connected by stainless / flexible pipework....
i even bought some to experiment with - for a final drive it would be totally maintenance free, even variable ratios with an adjustable pressure relief valve feeding into a sump....
put a little air into it for a cush drive.

thought of designing an aftermarket bolt-on set to replace conventional drives...
then i found out that peugot invented it in 1904 the viscuous coupling they called it (or probably le coupling viscuousse)
i was miffed.

but imagine that for cam drive - a star shaped rotor driven by the same on the crank, nothing to break... virtually loss free and silent, no rattles, no wear!

And its now similar to hydrostatic drive :S

I am sure I have seen bikes with hydraulic cams :S
havent the latest ducati's or aprillia (motogp perhaps?) using them?

I must admit, I think one day I will upgrade from the Firestorm to an SP1/SP2

[colin_linz]

This will be the final update. I have reached my 100 respondent limit for free access. The survey will be kept live. I may at a future date fork out some money for further results if the responses are there. I haven't drawn any conclusions, just included the questions and data. You can draw your own. Thanks to those of you that responded. I think a 100 is a meaningful size and some clear trends observable.

http://tinyurl.com/22n6mzj

[benny hedges]

I haven't drawn any conclusions

i have.
they break and wreck your head - in many ways.
prevention is better than cure.
avoid the inevitable and you have a good solid reliable bike, nothing much else mechanical goes wrong

[colin_linz]

The rate of failure isn't good that's for sure. I'm still happy enough to leave mine as they are though. At 80'000klm so fare without a problem, I'm curious to see how much longer they will last.

[benny hedges]

At 80'000klm so fare without a problem, I'm curious to see how much longer they will last

well tbh i think you will kick your own ass when they fail, especially seeing as you've looked at the stats and are aware of the failure rate.
the least you should do is replace the old ones with new oem ccts.
the ones you have are expired and imo could fail anytime, but will probably wait until you are miles away from home or really need the bike to impress some local munter.

it's like knowing your tyre is down to the string but leaving it to see what happens when it bursts...
or ignoring the fuel light...
or touching cloth and squeezing it back in...