Cam Chain Tensioner's (again no doubt)

[VTRDark]

decision time stump up or sell up!

The thing is every bike will have it's problems and weak points, some more than others. Honda's generally are the most reliable out of the bunch. The VTR's weak point is the CCT's and Regulator Rectifier. VTR's are not the only bike that have had CCT problems there are others too. And regulator rectifiers can be a problem on any older bike. I will guarantee any other bike you purchase will have problems of it's own, as these things are always built to a budget at the factory's and manufacturers have to cut corners somewhere.

For those that are less mechanically minded there may be someone on the forum near to you that may volunteer to lend you a hand. Or you could wait until the forum has a workshop day near to you that you could attend where there will be people on hand to help. Otherwise it's down to a garage to fit manuals. Most mechanics in a garage would not have heard of the stopper mod but If you print the instructions and diagram off I'm sure they would be able to follow them easily enough. There's basically a hollow part in the shaft of the CCT so when/if the spring breaks it becomes so slack the cam chain jumps of the cam sprocket causing valves to crash into pistons and bend. By inserting a piece of 8MM bar cut down to size (an M8 bolt is good enough) into the hollow part, this stops the tensioner becoming so slack that it causes major damage.

Honda are aware of the problem though they won't admit it. It would have cost them a heck of a lot of money (instead of making from damaged parts) to do a re-call on all VTR at the time.

(:-})

[mr.john.coates]

had the bike a week and with all this doom im gonna sell it.

i havnt got the time, patience or desire to piss about with something so tempramental.

i want to ride bikes not have one in bits every five mins!

You sound like an angry man!
They're not temperamental and they don't have to be in bits every 5 minutes. Either take the advice given here or sell it - the choice is yours.
I bought one, followed the advice, did the mod and I'm very happy

(Oh, given the VTR is such a pile of sh1t, I'm sure if you offer it up here for a couple hundred quit, someone will take pity and take it off your hands - as you say, can't be worth much )

[darkember]

Another point to add. Every year this forum will host workshop days where we get together & do these type of jobs. Honestly, out of all the Vtwins the Storm is probably the most reliable. The TL's have frame cracking issues, the SV1000 can suffer from a weak crank & wiring loom issues, the Aprilla does have electrical gremlins & finally the Duke well what can i say they look stunning but there is a reason for it. You will be spending many an hour sitting on the side of the road waiting for the AA admiring it

You also need to take into account this forum is dripping with knowledge & friendly people who will always be willing to assist with any issues you have. I dont see that level of knowledge and help since the days on the bandit forums. Remember all you are doing is to modify know issues & then you will have a great bike for life. Your call

[Rob]

I'm going to do the stopper mod soon.

But... I've had this bike since new (10 years) and done 25K with only a battery letting me down. I'm probably the most aggressive down shifter there is - I replaced my front brake pads recently for the FIRST time and they still had plenty of life left. I love engine braking.

The one problem with forums like this is that to the casual reader they almost always make the vehicle in question look bad. The reason being that a lot of people join just because they are having problems and they figure (rightly so) that a community of people owning a similiar vehicle is the best place to look for information and advice.

So what you see is a lot of people posting about problems and you think the particular vehicle is incredibly unreliable. (There are obviously exceptions but people don't generally go looking online for a forum just to say how reliable their vehicle is and to let everyone else who has one know that they haven't had any problems.)

It's just not the case - there are likely thousands of VTR1000 owners who have never had a CCT problem, unaware there is even a problem and happily enjoy their bikes blissfully ignorant.

No one knows the statistics - how many bikes are affected or how likely you are to be affected. Know one really knows if a particular riding style can increase the likelyhood of a failure.

Saying that there are two well documented problems with the Firestorm (Reliability wise, we won't get into performance/handling) and they are:-

1. Regulator/rectifier. These do fail (again mine hasn't though I changed it recently). It will leave you stranded and you will have to replace it and probably buy a new battery. Replacements are cheap 2nd hand and something like a CB125 one is plug and play.

2. CCT's. Spring snaps so there is no tension on the cam chain. The CCT will obviously need to be replaced and if you are unlucky the chain will jump teeth and you will have bent valves. Bearing in mind what I said above it is a definite problem and one, considering the consequences, that you would be sensible in taking steps to avoid. The good news is the 'Stopper mod' costs nothing (I spent 89p on some 8mm aluminium bar) and not so good news is that some work is involved requiring mechanical competency. The CCT can still fail and would need to be replaced but no engine damage can occur. Manual CCT's are another option - basically no spring just a solid tensioner. They need to be bought but thay cannot fail. Will require very infrequent adjustment. Again they need fitting and unlike the stopper mod they need to be tensioned manually.

[leevtr]

I'm going to do the stopper mod soon.

But... I've had this bike since new (10 years) and done 25K with only a battery letting me down. I'm probably the most aggressive down shifter there is - I replaced my front brake pads recently for the FIRST time and they still had plenty of life left. I love engine braking.

The one problem with forums like this is that to the casual reader they almost always make the vehicle in question look bad. The reason being that a lot of people join just because they are having problems and they figure (rightly so) that a community of people owning a similiar vehicle is the best place to look for information and advice.

So what you see is a lot of people posting about problems and you think the particular vehicle is incredibly unreliable. (There are obviously exceptions but people don't generally go looking online for a forum just to say how reliable their vehicle is and to let everyone else who has one know that they haven't had any problems.)

It's just not the case - there are likely thousands of VTR1000 owners who have never had a CCT problem, unaware there is even a problem and happily enjoy their bikes blissfully ignorant.

No one knows the statistics - how many bikes are affected or how likely you are to be affected. Know one really knows if a particular riding style can increase the likelyhood of a failure.

Saying that there are two well documented problems with the Firestorm (Reliability wise, we won't get into performance/handling) and they are:-

1. Regulator/rectifier. These do fail (again mine hasn't though I changed it recently). It will leave you stranded and you will have to replace it and probably buy a new battery. Replacements are cheap 2nd hand and something like a CB125 one is plug and play.

2. CCT's. Spring snaps so there is no tension on the cam chain. The CCT will obviously need to be replaced and if you are unlucky the chain will jump teeth and you will have bent valves. Bearing in mind what I said above it is a definite problem and one, considering the consequences, that you would be sensible in taking steps to avoid. The good news is the 'Stopper mod' costs nothing (I spent 89p on some 8mm aluminium bar) and not so good news is that some work is involved requiring mechanical competency. The CCT can still fail and would need to be replaced but no engine damage can occur. Manual CCT's are another option - basically no spring just a solid tensioner. They need to be bought but thay cannot fail. Will require very infrequent adjustment. Again they need fitting and unlike the stopper mod they need to be tensioned manually.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

[alternative_vtr]

Scrowe, as a biker myself who has owned nearly 50 bikes since the 1970's I can tell you every bike has issues that if you go on an enthusiasts forum you will find people advising stuff is done to deal with them. Chill I got my firestorm a few months ago and found the CCT change daunting - not because of what is required as I am reasonable with a spanner, but more the ease at which it can slip teeth and timing can be cocked up. But the job is fine if you follow the instructions carefully - mainly about making sure the cylinders are at TDC on compression when swapping tensioners.

The firestorm is a very good bike, once the CCT's and regulator/rectifier unit is sorted it will last you a lifetime. Besides it will be easier to sell it if you sort the bike first anyway

[scrowe]

First off i'd like to appologise for the short and flippant responses I've posted.

The only reason i sound pi$$ed off is since i've been on this forum there has been more nagativity about the VTR than any other bike ive ever owned (I tend to register with the relavant forums for the bike i have like FZRonline when i had my EXUP) and as a new owner reading all this has made me paranoid to hell about this machine!!

Oh, mr.john.coates im not an "angry man" in the slightest, I just wish that the first thing people would spout out about a bike aint negative!! Some of you guys really dont promote a bike that you're suposed to love!! One of the first things a member said on the newbie threads to me was change the CCT!!!!!! Bang on advertising! Cheers!

Pretty much every single person on here just continously bangs on about CCT's!! It's you lot that made me paranoid and not want to keep the bike! Some of you made it sound downright awfull! All the people I've spoken to (face to face, not online) say that the problem isnt as bad as all that, and the mechanic (he's also a personal friend) who ive used for the last decade (who isnt a honda dealer buy the way) said the forums feed the paranoia greatly.

so with respect i'll be taking what people say with a pinch of salt, and for those who have genuinly been objective and helpfull thankyou.

On a lighter note, is it true that VFR750 bars fit straight on without any mods but are about an inch higher. trying to improve my comfort levels.

[Kev L]

Scrowe, have a read through the old posts by using the search feature in the top right corner of the forum. You will find endless stories from owners who have joined the forum as a result of CCT failure or who having joined have suffered it during the early part of their ownership, hence members tend to warn new members of this and Reg/recs to avoid any additional costs for the newbie. Some bikes have gone for years with nothing done to the CCT's or Reg/rec with no ill effects and good luck to them. For me I was glad that I was warned in advance of the issues that may befall me and I then made a reasoned judgement and decided to go for manual CCT's.
I would rather have a realistic forum where folk point out negatives as well as positives than just listen to folk saying how great the bike is until it goes bang, and then be told "Oh yeah loads have done that!".
As to the VFR bars they do fit and give a raised seating position, or the later model VTR bars (the black ones) are flatter and raise the position.
Good luck with the bike.

[Wicky]

http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 90#p225090

er In your first post introducing yourself - it wasn't until the 12th reply that sirch mentioned CCTs

Pretty much every single person on here just continously bangs on about CCT's!!

In your 3rd post "Cam Chain Tensioner's (again no doubt)" you invited answers to the question " would it be worth just changing the CCT out of paranoia or, as its quiet leave alone for the time being."

Well you might not have liked the answers, with the attending minimal cost/hassle to preventatively fix what is a relatively common problem but people gave you the time to reply with an honest answer based on extensive storm ownership that totals many years and mucho milage - many more I guess than the people who have your ear - but will they give guarantee or offset the potential cost of engine repairs if you follow their advice. It's your prerogative whether you take any notice of the advice proffered here but don't shoot the messenger.

PS We reserve to right to say told you so

And yes I've had CCT failure at 35,000 miles out the blue while pootling along at 30mph. It cost me over £500 to fix but it was well worth it to get the bike back on the road, as it's overall a reliable ol beast. Since then I've done that milage again - worry free with manual CCTS that with this forums help I fitted myself, and can carry on filling her up with petrol and just riding and enjoying the bike as Mr Honda intended.

[tony.mon]

I've had mine for six years now, and knew about the forum from the first few days, but didn't have anything much to say. I chose to replace the cct's with new standard Honda ones, just to be safe, which then broke 18 months later at low revs pulling off of a roundabout.
So I fitted manuals.

But I know how much grief and trouble it was, getting it recovered, and as I was using the bike for work, sorting transport, all apart form the cost.
I'm a reasonable mechanic, so can strip and rebuild engines, but I know that a lot of owners wouldn't be able to undertake the task themselves, and not all Honda dealers, let alone independents, can get the rebuild right.
(I'm referring the cam timing being out 180 degrees).

So for peace of mind, at a relatively low cost, I recommend, based on personal experience, that people get it fixed before it bites them. Stoppers or manual, doesn't really matter, it's down to your preference, but if you wnat a reliable, trouble-free, enjoyable ride you have to do a little work first, or be prepared to possibly face the consequences.

As Wicky says, people have a choice, they can choose to gamble or not, but either way they've made an informed choice, and that's the important bit.

Reg/rec failures might leave you stranded (yes, I've had one of those, too) but at least it's an easy fix, and doesn't cost much money, so with those you can take your chances, if you want.
But a sudden and total engine failure can have you off, and that can have consequences beyond money, time and inconvenience, and so I will continue to recommend that owners attend to it as soon as they can.

Just my opinion, if you want to take the chance it's no skin off my nose.
(Possibly some off your butt though....)

Safe riding.

[MacKrell17]

Pretty much every single person on here just continously bangs on about CCT's!! It's you lot that made me paranoid and not want to keep the bike

This guy's just taking the piss..... Right?!

TBH with this kind of attitude should give the bike to somebody to pimp it into the bike it was always meant to be.

On the otherhand.... Rider on a storm on this forum manufactures the manual CCTs and they are top quality whilst being loads cheaper than the APE version. They look cool and whilst I can understand being worried about the knowledge you need to change them it really is a piece of piss and a good job to do over winter.

VFR bars give more rise than the later VTR clip ons. I tried both. In the end went for a set of adjustable Gilles vario bars. But this is mainly due to proving that throwing a bike down the road can leave lasting damage to your shoulders and I didn't wanted fit a straight bar.

Another good thing for comfort is get a screen that works. Just picked up zero gravity number which looks like it will make a massive difference.

Last thing to say is the guys on here love these bikes. Some would say this is not healthy and close to obsessive, and they would ne right. But my point is if you check out the workshop section or pimp my rider you will see that many many things have been done just to see if it works..... Not because it is needed, and on the way to developing hopefully better bikes that knowledge of what works and what doesn't is captured here which you can use or ignore at your leisure.

Most important thing is enjoy the bike (once it is comfortable) if it does go wrong at all then there are many people on here who will help you out to get it sorted ..... Even if some of them are a bit crazy.

Safe riding....

[Rob]

...... In the end went for a set of adjustable Gilles vario bars.....

Just bought some but not got them yet. I take it you like them?

Just the bars or any risers?

[Styler4077]

Sell this crap bike to me.
I'll take if off your hands reluctantly you understand.
£50 and I'll arrange to pick it up tomorrow.
It's £40 if it's a yellow or a red one as I have those two colours

To be honest your post comes across badly. This is THE best bike specific model forum in the UK. Period.
Everyone I have met face to face or talked to has been 100% genuine and the offers of help to anyone in trouble is remarkable.

Enough butt licking (jokes on the way after his post)

My offer still stands. Off to Wales for two days on an unreliable crap Honda VTR FireStorm.....

[MacKrell17]

Hi Rob
Vario bars are very good. Well made and easy to install. There's a photo in the pimp section. Look for "just a minor adjustment"

Mine have 60mm risers which clash with the tank and / or the fairing depending on which way round you put them. I also have to have custom clutch and brake lines.

Had the bike on the road for a quick test at the weekend albeit without fairings and stuff and can confirm the bars are great. The amount of adjustments is huge.