fine points or both

[Spacemonkey]

Hello again... come to feed the worms again.

Obviously I don't use high beam at night but I notice that most of the anti high beam brigade are very lucky to live in the sticks (dead jealous... ) and in london, where I do most of my riding, you really do need to use every weapon at your disposal to get seen. When filtering through traffic, I see people in cars just swerve across lanes willy nilly without a single look. This happens so many times a day when I'm sat in my car watching them. On my bike it doesn't happen so much, and you can generally spot the braindead idiot who will do such things and get past them as soon as you can, especially if they drive a black cab.. Also, when sat in my car in traffic queues, I notice hoards of bikes filtering past. The ones on high beams (which is a heck of a lot of us london bikers for some reason) flash in the mirrors and get my attention. If a biker is filtering up on my left on low beam I CANNOT SEE IT AT ALL unless I am staring in the mirror, which in stationary traffic queues, car drivers are staring ahead to detect the slightest hint of traffic flow-or looking to see if the 2 ft gap on the left lane is getting big enough to suddenly swerve into.... Now bear in mind that I am a life long biker, and actually looking out for bikes and you can see my point surely? Numptys without a clue about bikes won't even think about filtering bikes. However, when riding mine through stuck traffic, I shine my main beam towards mirrors, and you get a Moses like parting of the waves. The loud pipes seem to help with all but the most broadcast quality boy racer mobiles as well. It's all about staying alive- and as I see the results on a daily basis of when it all goes horribly wrong, and then have to put whats left of the people all back together again, I'm going to do whatever it takes not to end up on my own slab.
My dad harks back to the days when you couldn't ride with the lights on for long-not that the Lucas Lords Of Darkness did much anyway-and still won't ride with lights on in daylight. This isn't too bad as he only rides on quiet country roads, but in the crowded city where all the world's worst drivers converge for a demolition derby, it's a different matter. You may not agree, and that's fine with me but my own experiences as a biker and a car driver tell me otherwise. And come on-when was the last time a full beam head light in broad daylight blinded you?

[droid]

I can see Spacemonkeys' point entirely. It's horses for courses though, and in 8 years of commuting into Birmingham I can't think of an occasion where the BEAM used would have made any difference. What makes a difference is the way you ride. Hurtle past slow moving traffic and...eventually you'll cop it, whetther you have high beam, loud pipes or a bloody lighthouse on your head!
And anyone who thinks that the boondocks are safe hasn't lived there! Lights and a pipe don't do much for edge to edge cowsh. Or geriatric tractor drivers with four-furrow reversibles.

The point I'm trying to make is this:- ride how you like, with the bike set up how you like, BUT BE CAREFUL.

[Spacemonkey]

You're right! I'm a country boy from cow sh1t land darn sarf, but for all my sins am based right slap bang in the midle of London for now, but anyway, I feel more vunerable when I'm back in the wilds of Darzet, as the car drivers there aren't as used to bikes trying to get past them as they are in London. And they all seem fast asleep, with the cruise control set at 20 mph everywhere they go. I filter in first gear only, crawling along, and I wish I had a courier's force field, but they are out of stock at my local bike shop every time I ask. So far though, I've never had an accident in 16 years of riding, bar one time filtering along the outside at walking pace on slippery greasy winter roads in sarf London, and a car nudged out of a side road through the traffic queue. Saw it, and she saw me, but slippery road+Michelin AM89's=Duc on it's side. Didn't hit anything, or do any damage, so was fine. If I had been any faster it would have been a different story.

Have fun peeps!

[Druid]

Do you have any proof that riding with your main beam on is safer - if so, post the link because I have never seen such proof. Anecdotal evidence is not really acceptable here, let's try to be rigourous.

when sat in my car in traffic queues, I notice hoards of bikes filtering past. The ones on high beams (which is a heck of a lot of us london bikers for some reason) flash in the mirrors and get my attention.

...when riding mine through stuck traffic, I shine my main beam towards mirrors, and you get a Moses like parting of the waves.

...my own experiences as a biker and a car driver tell me otherwise. And come on-when was the last time a full beam head light in broad daylight blinded you?

So it seems that you don't have any evidence to back up your insistence on being inconsiderate.

London eh? That might explain a lot. Your arrogance even extends to classing everywhere that is not London as "the sticks". I'd hardly describe the West Midlands connurbation as an idyllic rural location.

In my experience - which is probably worth as much as yours - if you piss off a car driver then they're more likely to block you than to move over.

The last time I was blinded by a bike with high beams? Last week, blue R1 caught up with me as I was sitting at a set of traffic lights.

[Spacemonkey]

London eh? That might explain a lot. Your arrogance even extends to classing everywhere that is not London as "the sticks". I'd hardly describe the West Midlands connurbation as an idyllic rural location.

I'm a country boy from cow sh1t land darn sarf, but for all my sins am based right slap bang in the midle of London for now..

Which roughly means that I HATE living in London, and I feel like a tiger confined in an 8ft square cage. I get out in to the countryside where I belong as often as possible as an escape, so yes, I DO class everywhere outside of london as 'the sticks' and for a very good reason 'COS I HATE LONDON!! And in your earlier post about incosiderate drivers, it wasn't even me you were talking to so why pick on me now? My 16 years of main beam in daylight (note:DAY light- that yellow star in the sky is far brighter than my puny 55w) antics has not resulted in pissed of drivers trying to get me. In fact, most drivers in Londonium seem happy to budge over an inch or two to let me past-probably as they are/were bikers them selves? The odd BMW 3 series will always be the type of arrogant schwein that you think I am, and will go out of their way to stop you passing, but hey, they do that to me when I'm in my tin box too, and there's nothing arrogant about my little hairdresser mobile!

Now look mate, I've only been here 5 minutes and have no intention of getting on anyone's hit list. I'm an easy going type who enjoys a good piss take, and can take a good piss take back. Hence anything I write that seems insultory to ANYONE is meant in joke, and anyone who can't take it should either ignore me, or lighten up and have a laugh. We only live once, so enjoy your short lives. And by your avatar, and name, I think that we have a heck of a lot more in common than you might think, so chill, and stop having a go at me for having a different opinion.

[Druid]

Now look mate, I've only been here 5 minutes and have no intention of getting on anyone's hit list. I'm an easy going type who enjoys a good piss take, and can take a good piss take back. Hence anything I write that seems insultory to ANYONE is meant in joke, and anyone who can't take it should either ignore me, or lighten up and have a laugh.

I don't have a hit list, just trying to put my pov, and maybe change yours.

... so chill, and stop having a go at me for having a different opinion.

No need to have a go at you if you have the same opinion I still think you're wrong to ride on main beams rather than dip because

a) it doesn't have the desired effect,
b) it inconveniences other road users.

In my mind, b) is the greater issue. As motorcyclists we are already percieved to be dangerous/reckless by many car drivers, let's not give them any more ammo.

[Stormin Ben]

Druid,
Just wondering if you'd think it inconsiderate of me to have main beam on when filtering if I was pulling a wheelie at the time?
Its to dazzle the Police helicopter and the specs cameras

Ben

PS WRT high beam, I can see your point, particularly if they're stopped behind you coz that IS annoying. However, if they are actually filtering they're only visible for a couple of seconds max and what SpaceMonkey says is valid but it'd be worth dipping if you're actually sat behind someone
Its a bit like those bloody annoying fog lights, good in the right situation (large gap to the car behind you in thick fog), bloody dangerous in the wrong one (car behind is 10 feet from your bumper and its slightly hazy)

[paddy_skipton]

my 2 cents
dont wanna upset anyone
i think high beam riding is selfish
i know us bikers have it hard and have so much to contend with but two wrongs dont make a right
i drive a van for a living and do more miles driving than riding(gotta earn a crust) but bikes coming the other way blinding me f*cks me off,damn inconsiderate.

defensive riding is the key
my bosses are always getting sly digs in about bikers to try wind me up
comments just like(the amount of bikes right up my ass this weekend)
i say were not all Richard on the road

[yellafella]

Bikers driving cars etc. know the score so should let it be ! The ba*****s that dont know need a sharp lesson and a good high beam should let them know yourer there. And during daylight hours the difference between high and low is our lives !
Always use high beam during the day, and stuff em if they dont like it, they will let you past if they dont !
Waffle ! Blah blah !
Stu

[droid]

Druid, I may be being pedantic (that means I am being) but you said earlier in this thread that you wanted rigour, not anecdote.
Got any proof that high beam doesn't work?

Cos this debate seems to have got very personal, and though I tend to side with you (that riding high beam tends to annoy cagers and is inconsiderate) I think it is up to Spacemonkey and Teagie to ride the way they see fit, and not for you to tell them otherwise.

Anyway, I bet more people are pissed off with your loud pipes than with their high beams! This isn't rigorous or anecdotal, it's opinion. And yes I am the one who's got a pair of Microns on order.

Have a nice day[/quote]

[teagie]

m8 to be honest i dont care how far away u think i am at least u know iam there

So it's ok for you to annoy other road users for some percieved safety advantage rather than drive defensively and actively take responsibility for your own safety? Do you have any proof that riding with your main beam on is safer - if so, post the link because I have never seen such proof. Anecdotal evidence is not really acceptable here, let's try to be rigourous.

You seem to be a rather inconsiderate rider. There again, a lot of people seem to lack consideration for others in many areas of modern life.

I do hope you never post some complaint about another road user's inconsiderate behaviour, as that would smack of hypocrisy.

i have been commuting for 10 years covering over 100,000 miles on british roads and i am still here to write this post enough said high beem during daylight .dipped light at night its worked for me most cagers drive about ablivous to the motorcyclist . it gets said many times (i didnt see him honsetly) well u can see me and now with added microns i deafen em as well

[essexbloke]

jees..........

is it safe to come out yet?

[teagie]

who cares ne way we can agree to disagree

[RAINMAKER]

Can I just say...........I never would ride with lighs on at all, never had leathers. just boots with fishermans white socks, bright clothes .......no way.

then I got a bike which had a white fairing..........guess what...people moved out of the way.......guess they saw me !

Nowadays I still don't feel right with lights on, prefer to be observant.
Got hit from behind by car while at the lights......bit shook up.

Now ride with lights on, dip or sometimes main beam, have fluresent yellow jacket and well dont give a s*** People still pull out in front, can't win really can we ?

[droid]

jees..........

is it safe to come out yet?

No Essexbloke, best stay there in the flatlands and let this one run it's course!

Druid's closer to me than to you anyway!