Should I rebuild this shed or count my losses.

[mattycoops43]

Hi there.

Well, I have been well and truly ripped off. Picked this beauty up two weeks ago, knowing it was a bit tatty, but under the impression it was basically ok underneath. It is described as having had the front CCT replaced after it broke, and says it is a bit rattly.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261192113405? ... 1497.l2649

Went down to Cornwall, paid cash and picked it up. On the way home realised it was definitely not what I thought, the bars were turned to the left, and the front forks shuddered every time I put the brake on.

After stripping the front end and fitting a new bottom yoke at the weekend, we realised it has been in a front end crash, both forks are bent, the head stock bearings are shot. My neighbour who is a bike mechanic rode it up and down the rode today and he is certain the front discs are warped, he thinks this is what has destroyed the headstock bearings. and he also says it is extremely rattly, sounds like the Cam chain is about to snap. The fairing subframe is bent from the impact and we do not think the clocks are original (they say 32k) he thinks it is a very high mileage bike, and says the engine has obviously been thrashed to death.

I can work on bikes myself, but I didn't know what a big v twin should sound like so I just wasn't sure what to look for when I went to collect it.

Ebay motors basically don't want to know, motors are outside of buyer protection, they suggested I call the police.

I have emailed the seller who has just replied that he didn't think there was anything wrong with it.

I just don't really know what to do, is there any way to get some money back off him? But really I am wondering if it's worth stripping it down and completely rebuilding it. I have not ridden a VTR till I rode the 180 miles home on it, and I have to say I enjoyed it, with all the faults.

What would I need to budget, I am guessing there will be certain things that always need replacing when doing a rebuild on one of these. I know I need stanchions/forks, discs, cam chain/tensioners?

Just pissed off TBH, don't really know whether to bother with it or not. I KNOW I should have been more careful, but have not had any problems with ebay and was lulled into a false sense of security. I have a suspicion the guy genuinely had no idea and someone who knows has looked at it and told him to get shot of it quick. he had no tools or anything and his garage was full of building stuff. he is also a guy in his 50's who did not come over as a wide boy. There has been lots of mention of a 'mate' who did the CCT with him, that's why I think he might just be an idiot.

Suggestions?

Matt

[Miztaziggy]

Sorry to hear that mate.

It may be a little simplistic, but by the sounds of it, you only really need front forks, discs and sub frame and you have a decent bike?

You can get forks on ebay for about £100, sub frame for about £30-40 and discs for about £60 (there are lots of models that have discs that will fit the firestorm).

Headstock bearings arent that hard to change, and you can replace them for tapered kind fairly easily and cheaply.

As for the rattle, it may be that he has fitted manual CCTs and not tightened them enough? May also be bent valves or something though, so would need to look into that and find out if it's worth repairing before you went ahead and bought the other stuff. I would also probably check the compression on the cylinders before buying any other parts, as if that's way low, it might be a new engine to fix it.

As for buying second hand, you have no real come back as it's usually a case of caveat emptor (buyer beware).

[mattycoops43]

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I agree with what you say, I am pissed off at myself for getting caught out tbh.

We knew about the forks and front end issues (apart from the discs) as of the wknd when we stripped it. we didn't even start it up.

It's only today when mechanic mate actually rode it he said about the engine. That's what's taken it a step further tbh. I asked him about honing or reboring as it's been caned, he thinks the bores are part of the casing and coated? is this right? so if the bores are knackered, it is a new engine job.

If it was just a case of cam chain etc, I would just do it. Definitely no Manual CCT, just original Honda ones.

If it has gone (don't know what to believe anymore from the seller) When it goes, and if the piston hits the valves, does it do any damage to bottom end? little and big ends etc? or is it just a case of replacing valves and chain etc? I don't want to do top end rebuild, only to find the rest of the engine is no good.

[lumpyv]

why not look on this as an opportunity to fit blade forks ??

[Wicky]

Ouch! When was it last MOT'd? Keep an eye on ebay for the parts you need i.e forks, and subframe though first thing would be to check that the frame's headstock is damaged if so then it will be fit only for breaking for parts. As for discs then new OEM/EBC can cost £200+ a pair but as they are fundamental for your safety I wouldn't scrimp on them.

Check the valve clearance, as this is a timely and relatively expensive job by a dealer they might be well out and account for the rattle. Normally the stock CCTs just go without a warning rattle - Budget getting some manual CCTs and it's not a complex job so you can DIY following the fitting guide in the workshop knowledgeable.

From the price you paid it will be a labour of love to get it sorted to a baseline sorted.

[seb421]

Why did you not test ride the bike before buying it?

if you want an original RWU firestorm front end you can have these for little money on ebay

you could jazz it up and fit a full USD front end form a CBR929 / 954 if you have time to acquire the parts (direct swap over)

if you want to check its true millage history at every mot its had use this link, its a sticky in the bike chat section.

http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=24060

And fit manual CCT's or do the stopper mod asap, if you have a bike mechanic mate get him to do it and get him to come with when you go to look at bikes in the future, he might be able to spot a lemon easier than most

[berko_lad]

If the CCT's had gone and shafted the top end, surely you wouldn't have been able to ride it 180 miles home!

[vtrjames]

sorry to hear your story, but..i would agree to upgrading the front end.or just replace with standard parts. I would rather repair the bike than punt it on or break it..

[darkember]

The only bikes i will buy are from long term forum members at least that way you are getting something with substance & history to it. In this case i would rebuild it as to sell it on will only make a large loss. Personally I would feel uncomfortable trying to hoodwink another punter with a dog.

[alternative_vtr]

I would try not to beat yourself up, put it down to experience and make the best of the situation. Get it sorted and take the opportunity to get the bike improved and then keep it, in a years time it will be a memory and you will have a well sorted bike.

[gafr]

myself i would rebuild , even if the ccts need replacing. it looks tidy enough from the piccie, besides, as you pointed out, they really are fun to ride, not brill on fuel, but there you go. all in all - rebuild. you wont be upset with it!

[alexmac]

hi, sorry to hear about the issue's with your bike. but if you do decide to keep the bike, i may be able to help
i have a compleate front end of a 99 storm.
i don't want big buck's for it. just sat here gathering dust.
more than willing to split it, for the part's you need
i live cheltenham, so not to far away from you.


all the best alex

[mattycoops43]

Thanks for the replies guys, I am feeling a lot more positive after a shift at work.

I didn't test ride it, because that's not how ebay works. I bid on it, and I thought it was a bit of a punt, but you don't then turn up and start haggling. Admittedly, if I had realised the issues I would have walked away, but when I went down I was just collecting it. Wife drove me down , I paid him, got into my bike gear and rode away.

The story doesnt make sense in the ad, it looks like it does have a new CCT on the front, and it's an original one, but if you tip the bike side to side at tickover, the noise changes, so I think it's the cam chain moving about. Is it possible the cct went without causing major damage and he just bolted a new one on? or could it have bent valves, he's done it but left a worn chain on?

I am just so used to inline fours, I thought it was meant to sound like that, there is no chain whirr like on a worn chain on an IL4, more of a slapping sound from the top end.

I think my best bet is going to be to fix it properly, but I can't really afford to do a complete strip down and mint rebuild like I would like, so I will source the bits I need, keep it original, just get it to a tidy ridable point then decide what to do. I have already been offered some well prices bits from people which is much appreciated.

I will need advice, so expect to see me around on here more!

I think I asked this before, but no one has mentioned it. Assuming the CCT went, what's the worst case scenario, if I rebuild the top end and do the chains, is it possible there is any bottom end damage as well? or is that not effected? My mechanic mate keeps talking about the impact damaging the conrod bearings etc, but all the talk of CCT going on here, no one has really mentioned any damage like that. I just want to know what might need doing before I pull it apart.

Planning at the moment on, New forks/stanchions, new discs (good used from someone I can trust) and a top end rebuild on the motor, chains, tensioners and whatever it needs.

[Wicky]

In the ad the seller wrote:

the head has been rebuilt after she did the dreaded VTR trick of breaking her cam chain tensioner on the front cylinder, unfortunately I didn't shim her tappets up as they were just in tolerance, this has made her rattle

Roll your sleeves up and check the valve clearances, and valve timings to see what's going on. Goodness knows what the PO has/hasn't done despite their claims in the ad, so you need to see what's in and out of spec.

[mattycoops43]

My mate who is a better mechanic than me was flicking the bike form side to side while it was ticking over, and the sound was changing, he reckons this is the cam chain moving side to side and its worn. Whatever it is, going to get the engine out and have a proper look.