Trail Braking

[8541Hawk]

After hunting around a bit to get a feel for this forum I found a thread with some interesting comments on brakes.

I'm not sure if this is something you guys want to talk about or if it has already been covered so I'll keep it short and basic to start.
This is for the front brakes.

The rear brake is another topic and would be what I would consider an "advanced" skill....or onr that can hurt you if your hamfisted...or footed in this case but if use "correctly" the rear brake can be used to settle the chassis, tighten your line in a corner and is also useful when riding two up.

Back on topic, I sent young Master Virt a copy of a thread I started on the other board..... it was in response to a guy on there stating that "you are in less control of your bike when you are on the brakes"

Over here we have MSF to teach basic riding skills and I have had to re-teach a few folks to ride as they sound like the basic course there..... four finger on the brake, pull the clutch in....wonderful stuff.

Though I was made to feel old as I was talking about the school I went to where this was taught and was told by the same fine lad the "Track Schools" really don't teach you the real way to go fast....
I did reply, well it was Freddie Spencer's school..... only to get back "Should I know who that is?"

So here you go..... the video was pretty much the same as my intro to the topic as the instructors are the same except now it's Scott Russell instead of Freddie.

Well as ridding season will be starting for some of you guys soon, it seems like a good time to cover the subject of braking again.

That and the comment recently, by another member, that using the brakes reduces you control of the bike.

So the whole idea of trail braking is to being on the brakes all the way to the apex of the corner, while slowly trailing them off. Then back on the throttle.

The two main things this does is first by loading the front tire, you increase the size of the front contact patch (yes giving you more usable traction)

Second it compresses the forks, which gives you a steeper trail angle, so the bike will actually turn quicker.

I could go on but I'll let these guys walk you through it.....

[lloydie]

Good write up . I do tend to break early and as soon as I see the apex I'm on the throttle powering though and out the bend .
I rarely use the rear brake unless I get it very wrong and this is a habit I no I need to get out off .

[gl_s_r]

I think you could take my back brake off and I wouldn't miss it.... think my biggest faux pas is from my young motocross days when I was a kid and the habit of two fingered braking.. that is all I got told off for on all my lessons and the main thing I had to think of when I done my test.

Thanks for the link and the write up...

Just been thinking about bad habits that you get into and I am sure that due to the motocross days I also have a problem with right hand corners.. I love going round left hand ones and feel really comfortable when I am in them but right hands ones... don't know, it just doesn't feel the same.

Don't know if that is the fact most courses were counter-clockwise when I done motocross or it's a natural thing and other people have a slight difference in technique, posture, strength or whatever on left and right corners but either way I hate right handers and that is such a shame these days with so many roundabouts.

[8541Hawk]

I think you could take my back brake off and I wouldn't miss it....

Many riders feel that way, that is why I'll cover the rear brake tomorrow.....no pun intended....lol
IMHO it is another tool in your toolbox. It does have a time and place and if you learn to use it correctly it can be a good thing.

think my biggest faux pas is from my young motocross days when I was a kid and the habit of two fingered braking.. that is all I got told off for on all my lessons and the main thing I had to think off when I done my test.

Funny thing is that is how I ride, two fingers covering the front brake.... in fact it would be all but impossible to trail brake if you had four fingers on the brakes.....

[gl_s_r]

I still do ride like it and have two fingers covering pretty much all the time..

looking forward to the rear brake bit, especially as I think my rear brake is pretty much useless and has wooden brake blocks in it, it's not the best back brake in the world.

[lloydie]

I too cover the levers with my two inside fingers and I like right handers over lefts - I thinks that is because every time I've low sided its been on the left .

[gl_s_r]

I never thought about that but every time I've low sided it's been on a right hander...

begs the question then, is it the mindset than made me low side or the low sides that have give me the mind set?

[Pete.L]

Good post!
with regard to being better at left handers it might also have something to do with the curvature of the road. The chamber normally runs off to the gutter so when making left handers your tyres have a better contact point than when making a right so the bike, more often than not, has better stability going left. Add to that your confidence levels, if you are nice and relaxed, the bike is always more settled, so if you relax more on left handers it will feel even better and just reinforce your insecurities on right handers. A truly vicious cycle Personally I hate down hill bends, I feel a lot happier piling on the gas going uphill but always have a little sphincter moment on the down hill

So what about which brake to use first? Front or back?
We were always taught 60% front 40% rear and apply the front first. With modern street bikes and the differences in the braking power between front and rear brakes, does this still hold any relevancy?

Pete.l

[8541Hawk]

I too cover the levers with my two inside fingers and I like right handers over lefts - I thinks that is because every time I've low sided its been on the left .

Pete actually covered it rather well with his reply. Over here it is the exact opposite and most folks have issues with right hand turns.

[8541Hawk]

So what about which brake to use first? Front or back?
We were always taught 60% front 40% rear and apply the front first. With modern street bikes and the differences in the braking power between front and rear brakes, does this still hold any relevancy?
Pete.l

I'll start with this is just my opinion and riding a bike is what we call a "soft science" as there ar many ways to do the same thing and the one that is correct is what works for you.

So with that, for most riding you really don't need the rear brake.

To get the smoothest stops it would be rear brake, to start the weight transfer forward. Roll off the rear and onto the front for max brake power. Then roll off the front and back onto the rear as you come to a complete stop. Way to much for everyday riding but handy to know if it is real dicey out.

Guess I better get that other thread written up

[edds11]

on a right hander you have more visibility of the up and coming road, whereas lefthanders are normaly covered by bushes,trees ect, the comment earlier is also true about the camber

[lloydie]

on a right hander you have more visibility of the up and coming road, whereas lefthanders are normaly covered by bushes,trees ect, the comment earlier is also true about the camber

I commit to a left hander the same as a right . If its clear on the oncoming lane I'm in it to get the best visibility around the bend for a left hander .

[fabiostar]

comming from a supermoto racing background i tend to trail the back brake a lot up to the apex of a corner or even in the corner if its wet ..seems to work so far.....

[8541Hawk]

comming from a supermoto racing background i tend to trail the back brake a lot up to the apex of a corner or even in the corner if its wet ..seems to work so far.....

While it may work well with a supermoto, it really is bad form to trail the rear on a street bike (or larger bike for that matter)....

I can get into it a bit more but just remember that loosing the rear in a corner is the first set towards a high side.

[geodude]

I use the rear brake lightly to scrub speed during a corner if go in too fast but I prefer to plan the bend and do 99% of the braking before hand. Slow in fast out. It might be different on the track with its silky smooth surface, but you give it a handful of front, albeit gradual, banked over on a bend and you are presented with gravel, you are going down