Pilot Jet

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ebenviljoen
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Pilot Jet

Post by ebenviljoen »

Hi chaps,

Going to install my Dnojet kit soon :thumbup: . From reading all of the posts, it looks like seb has the same sort of set up I need with Pipercross filter. I will start with standard setup and then work my way from there.

I did notice that most is going up a size or two with the pilot jets though. Even though I know this is the last part to take care off, I am starting to gather as much info as I can. Looks like everyone is sort of going #48 and seb in particular #50. what is the standard size? is it 45#. sorry if I sound thick! lol, also, where can I buy pilot jets from. Saw they are on ebay and so on, but need to get the right sort/make. want to order a few bigger sizes so I have them and don't need to mess about when I get to that stage.
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8541Hawk
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Re: Pilot Jet

Post by 8541Hawk »

The pilots are series 21 jets. :thumbup:
Loud pipes don't save lives, knowing how to ride your bike will save your life.
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VTRDark
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Re: Pilot Jet

Post by VTRDark »

Yeh Seb had issues with his Yoshi full system and the pipercross filter and after many attempts settled on the 50's. Here in the UK 45's where installed for the first couple of years but then Honda upped them to 48's IIRC in late 98 to 99. I believe the needle profiles are slightly different too compared to say the US as the part numbers are not the same.

The thing with tuning carbs is that you can't really just go and copy someone else's exact setup. Yes use it as an approximate base line, but every bike is going to be different and also where you live will affect things with climate conditions, altitude, temperature, humidity etc. You have to experiment and see what is right for you by the seat of your pants dyno or take the bike for a dyno run to see how things are.

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Last edited by VTRDark on Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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thumperslaw
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Re: Pilot Jet

Post by thumperslaw »

To get a real setup done then buy some dyno time
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ebenviljoen
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Re: Pilot Jet

Post by ebenviljoen »

thanks all :thumbup:

yeah gunna get some serious dyno time in. Found a place not too far from me, £30 for ten runs, thought that was quite good. if anyone knows or can recommend a good place in Leicestershire/northamptonshire or anywhere really, please let me know
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thumperslaw
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Re: Pilot Jet

Post by thumperslaw »

ebenviljoen wrote:thanks all :thumbup:

yeah gunna get some serious dyno time in. Found a place not too far from me, £30 for ten runs, thought that was quite good. if anyone knows or can recommend a good place in Leicestershire/northamptonshire or anywhere really, please let me know
Only place i could tell you is G.P performance in oxford (grant) is top notch on his dyno
98 storm with goodies!

Srad seven fiddy stuntbike

K100 "flying brick"

R.I.P engine number 5
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VTRDark
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Re: Pilot Jet

Post by VTRDark »

£30 for ten runs
That is dirt cheap. £10 a run would be cheap.

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ebenviljoen
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Re: Pilot Jet

Post by ebenviljoen »

well, fiited the Dynojet kit over the weekend and had the carbs off about 6 times since Sunday, but I think I have sort off cracked it.

Pipercross filter
Pilot's #48
Needle on 4th clip
190# main jet
A/F screws 2 turns.

The bike starts easy, runs well, can't feel any flat spots throughout the rev range and behaves as it should on the blibb test. still sounds a bit dull though and think the A/F screws needs very fine tuning but without a pro motion driver, no way I can get to the screws without taking the carbs off. Need to invest in one. Think it's still slightly lean as the plugs are light grey, not the browny colour they should, but then my bike never had brown coloured plugs.Our MD at work also kindly advised that there is a little bonus for us all, so I was thinking Dyno Time!!!!!!!!! :D :D Deffinately needs Dyno tuning now with the help of someone that knows a little more than me. Ill post some results when ive got it all sorted.
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seb421
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Re: Pilot Jet

Post by seb421 »

With the Yoshi system + Pipercross race filter and 48's it was running lean and hot, i'd get off the bike and have that awful hot metal smell too

Switched to 50's adjusted the A/F and it sorted it out
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ebenviljoen
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Re: Pilot Jet

Post by ebenviljoen »

seb421 wrote:With the Yoshi system + Pipercross race filter and 48's it was running lean and hot, i'd get off the bike and have that awful hot metal smell too

Switched to 50's adjusted the A/F and it sorted it out
I did look for 50's mate but couldn't find any. Reason because I saw your setup on a different post. Where can I buy these from? and do they have a specific part number/make?

Any help please mate :thumbup:
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VTRDark
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Re: Pilot Jet

Post by VTRDark »

You need Keihin Series N424-21 pilot jets.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksi ... &_from=R40

Are you running a full Yoshi system including header pipes?

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ebenviljoen
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Re: Pilot Jet

Post by ebenviljoen »

cybercarl wrote:You need Keihin Series N424-21 pilot jets.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksi ... &_from=R40

Are you running a full Yoshi system including header pipes?

(:-})
Not Yoshi system mate, full Scorpion system, had no baffles when I bought it, still don't but my local dealer kindly passes it through the MOT for me. and then pipercross filter.
I might not need #50's, advise realy. It is running a little warm though thinking about it and think it's a little lean. turning the A/F screw might sort it out but not sure. Don't have a tool to adjust them on the bike. There are no flat spots throughout the range and also it behaves fine on the blibb test you said in a different post. But it feels a little dull and the spark plugs are quite light in colour. it also sounds a little dull and not as crisp. This is my first V-Twin so struggling a bit and to be fair I am not that hot on bike tuning. Still learning.
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VTRDark
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Re: Pilot Jet

Post by VTRDark »

though thinking about it and think it's a little lean. turning the A/F screw might sort it out but not sure
The A/F screw only affects the pilot circuit mostly and only a smaller amount as you move onto the needles and mains. So it depends on where about in the rev range and your throttle position that you believe to be still lean.
it behaves fine on the blibb test you said in a different post.
This suggest that you have the A/F screws set right according to the pilot jet size you have installed.
and the spark plugs are quite light in colour
You need to be careful judging things by spark plugs unless your doing a proper plug chop at the required rev range and throttle position your testing for. If you just go out for a ride and then pull the plugs when you get back your likely only going to get a reading from the bike standing at idle on the pilot circuit. Not only that but modern day plugs like Irridium are not as easy or as accurate to read compared to the older style classic plug.

Your better off using the choke as a testing tool to determine if lean or rich. Pulling the choke (technically an enricher) richens up the mix. Only pull it a very slight amount out otherwise this can also be misleading as you could just flood things.

TBH with a full system including header pipes (downpipes) you are better off doing a single dyno run to see how things are. As it stands you don't know whether the full system is affecting the top or bottom end and how. They are all different. Otherwise it's a lot of guesswork and a learning curve along the way as you begin to realise what feels rich and what feels lean. Even this can get confusing at times and you need to now what circuit within the carbs this is happening. On that note I have not seen Scorpion header pipes so a picture would be nice, especially of where the two cylinders join up.

You could try the 50's and then set your A/F accordingly and see if these give you better or worse performance but remember the pilot jet and A/F screws work together. Think of the pilot jet as a course adjustment and the A/F screw a fine adjustment and stay within 1 and 3 turns out. Also by changing the pilot jet size this will have an affect on the needle height, so if you go richer on the pilot you may find that you need to lean of the needles a bit.

You will soon get used to pulling carbs and making changes. :lol: Only make one change at a time or you may get lost in what needs doing. Have fun. :thumbup:

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ebenviljoen
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Re: Pilot Jet

Post by ebenviljoen »

thanks mate ill play around a bit more. Printed off your guide so studying it carefully.

Very stupid question though, but I want to just confirm. When adjusting the A/F screw, 1 turn, does that mean that any point on the outer edge of the screw will make a 180 degree move, or 360 degree move and end up in the exact same spot as to where it was?

Also, think it's normal pipes on my storm mate, Scorpion cand with link pipes. Ill take a pic though to confirm :thumbup:
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VTRDark
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Re: Pilot Jet

Post by VTRDark »

1 turn is a full 360 degrees. OK so you don't have a full system, I doubt you will require 50's then as 48's I would have thought would be quite sufficient. Scorpion cans are one of the few cans that have been designed so no carburettor changes are required on a standard setup though may benefit from rejetting. As you adding the Piper filter this then upsets the balance so you will require rejetting.

Have you tried the Dynojet base setting? as you using the piper filter you may need to try going slightly richer than they suggest by moving the needle 1 clip richer or adding shims. you may even require the 190 mains though this may be a little too rich. It's a shame the UK kits don't supply 185's :( One other thing, don't go drilling the extra slide hole as in dynojet instructions suggest as this usually upsets things and brings on the slides too soon and richens things up. But who knows, it may actually be beneficial with the Piper filter and using the dynojet base settings. Personally I would try things without drilling the hole first.

I have no experience with Piper filters but I believe they allow more air than a K&N. It's going to be down to trial and error but you will learn a lot from making changes and seeing how one thing affect another.

Get what feels right to you and then take the bike for a single dyno run see how accurate things are and then you can tweak things from there.

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