CCT (Cam Chain Tensioner) Fail Safe Mod. (aka Stopper Mod)

[eerie]

hi again, I finally showed my mechanic all the pictures and info about the stopper mod and he agreed that there was only a safe way to take out the tensioners and that was removing both cam covers. so he has done the stopper mod following the procedure here but the pieces he cut (because that's what he determined was needed) were about 10mm long. only looking at the pictures I thought that the length would be a few centimeters but these he made are barely 1cm. he said he checked it and it was the length that the tensioners asked for (one a little bit more than the other but not much). have we done something wrong or these stoppers can be in some cases this short? how long approximately were the stoppers in your bikes? hope everything's fine as the bike is already reassembled and running...

[Jamoi]

Hey up, the length of stopper required varies according to how worn the cam chain is, on average the stoppers need to be around 11mm + or - a couple of mm.

So yours sound about right dude

[eerie]

just a comment for those following incase they can see a potential shortcut and do theirs at 11mm.........depending on your engine the stopper length is going to vary, I have seen them as small as 8mm long and as lond as 12, so dont think 1 size fits all. You have to measure each one and make the stopper to suit

sorry, I should have re-read the full topic before asking. you are right jamoi, it's all clear now. thanks for all the info guys

[Jamoi]

Now go and have fun!

[sirch345]

That sounds right to me as well. So well done to you and your mechanic

Chris.

[Hagaric]

Hi, looking for some CCT advice..

Short version: I have honda ccts with failsafe mods but they keep failing, short of buying manual ones or more honda items, What can I do to effect a more permanent solution?

Long Version:

I bought a high-mileage '97 Firestorm 2 years ago, it came with 2 spare new honda cct's and I immediately fitted failsafes to the ones on the bike. Last august, whilst on a long trip with loads of motorway riding, the rear one failed (slight loose rattle, thanks, failsafe) and I replaced both with the new ones in my toolkit, moving over the failsafes. The bike stood all winter, and last week, sure enough, the front one went. Every time I removed a failed cct they appeared to be working fine: extended under spring pressure & resisted being pushed back, except with the screw. How can I tell if they've really failed? In each case the noise was definitely camchain & the replacement fixed it.The ccts fited to the bike when I got it had a blue and a pink dot, respectively. Both the new ones had orange dots, does this mean anything to anyone?

My easiest option is to fit the 2 remaining working ones (one new, one old) and carry on, but I'd like something both safe & lower maintainance.. Can I, for instance, thread a longer screw & locknut into the back of the cct, blocking the outward movement of the plunger, or won't that work?

I hope this is in the right place & not already answered.. :-)

[Wicky]

To save you any more grief & worry just simply fit manual tensioners.

http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 45#p304638

Krieger, APE, Bazza and Ade Whitmarsh's CCT's > http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 16&t=22720

[NZSpokes]

Is there anyway to tell externally if the stopper mod has been done? Ive not had mine apart and wondered if mine has stopper or manual. Mine has a long thread coming out of it with a bolt on the end and a locknut. But is a small thread, not large like I have seen others.

[sirch345]

Hi, looking for some CCT advice..

Short version: I have honda ccts with failsafe mods but they keep failing, short of buying manual ones or more honda items, What can I do to effect a more permanent solution?

Long Version:

I bought a high-mileage '97 Firestorm 2 years ago, it came with 2 spare new honda cct's and I immediately fitted failsafes to the ones on the bike. Last august, whilst on a long trip with loads of motorway riding, the rear one failed (slight loose rattle, thanks, failsafe) and I replaced both with the new ones in my toolkit, moving over the failsafes. The bike stood all winter, and last week, sure enough, the front one went. Every time I removed a failed cct they appeared to be working fine: extended under spring pressure & resisted being pushed back, except with the screw. How can I tell if they've really failed? In each case the noise was definitely camchain & the replacement fixed it.The ccts fited to the bike when I got it had a blue and a pink dot, respectively. Both the new ones had orange dots, does this mean anything to anyone?

My easiest option is to fit the 2 remaining working ones (one new, one old) and carry on, but I'd like something both safe & lower maintainance.. Can I, for instance, thread a longer screw & locknut into the back of the cct, blocking the outward movement of the plunger, or won't that work?

I hope this is in the right place & not already answered.. :-)

When a CCT fails the spring will be broken, the plunger will not extend on removal as yours have been. What is most likely happening is the spring is getting weak, therefore the tension on the cam chain is not as much as it would be if the CCT was working properly with a fully tensioned spring. With less tension on the cam chain it will flapping about in the cam chain tunnel, that is most likely what you are hearing. You normally hear that on the overrun IE as you're slowing down going down through the gearbox and the rev's are dropping. I've heard this from a weak spring on the front CCT at around 3,000rpm and down.

We have not seen anything in writing from Honda to say the different coloured dots mean they have upgraded the CCT's, if that is what you were hoping.

You cannot just screw a longer bolt with locknut into the back of a CCT to stop the plunger retracting, the way the CCT's are designed that wouldn't work.

You could fit manual CCT's as Wicky suggested, or buy two new CCT's and fit the Stopper mod, going through the correct procedure here. If a lot of miles have been covered since the stopper mod was carried out to your bike, it may now need slightly longer stopper rods. The choice is up to you. If you're making new stopper rods use steel not alloy.

Whichever you decide to go for, just make sure you follow our correct procedure for setting up the valve timing before removing a CCT, this is most important,

Chris.

[Wicky]

Have you a picture?

[sirch345]

Is there anyway to tell externally if the stopper mod has been done? Ive not had mine apart and wondered if mine has stopper or manual. Mine has a long thread coming out of it with a bolt on the end and a locknut. But is a small thread, not large like I have seen others.

If that bolt is the same diameter as the original short bolt, it sounds like your CCT's have been modified with a 6mm bolt with locknut, with a flat ground on the end of the bolt (very much like a flat bladed screwdriver end). This flat fits into the worm drive head. That basically turns the standard Honda CCT into a manual tensioner.

In general (just in case anyone else is thinking about doing this MOD) unless you have very well trained ears, you really need to set the correct amount of play in the cam chain just as you would for fitting manual CCT's. Also you cannot just screw the ground down bolt straight into the back of the CCT, you need to remove the CCT first to fit this type of modification. You must set up the valve timing correctly before removing a CCT,

Chris.

[NZSpokes]

Is there anyway to tell externally if the stopper mod has been done? Ive not had mine apart and wondered if mine has stopper or manual. Mine has a long thread coming out of it with a bolt on the end and a locknut. But is a small thread, not large like I have seen others.

If that bolt is the same diameter as the original short bolt, it sounds like your CCT's have been modified with a 6mm bolt with locknut, with a flat ground on the end of the bolt (very much like a flat bladed screwdriver end). This flat fits into the worm drive head. That basically turns the standard Honda CCT into a manual tensioner.

In general (just in case anyone else is thinking about doing this MOD) unless you have very well trained ears, you really need to set the correct amount of play in the cam chain just as you would for fitting manual CCT's. Also you cannot just screw the ground down bolt straight into the back of the CCT, you need to remove the CCT first to fit this type of modification. You must set up the valve timing correctly before removing a CCT,

Chris.

That sounds exactly like it. I will pull the valve covers soon and check the shims and chain tension.

Cheers

[tony.mon]

Is there anyway to tell externally if the stopper mod has been done? Ive not had mine apart and wondered if mine has stopper or manual. Mine has a long thread coming out of it with a bolt on the end and a locknut. But is a small thread, not large like I have seen others.

If the thread is visible when fitted then it will be a manual type.
The stopper mod is a modification to the standard one; in both standard and stoppered they look like Honda intended and there is no visible thread showing.

Sound like good news for you!

[NZSpokes]

Is there anyway to tell externally if the stopper mod has been done? Ive not had mine apart and wondered if mine has stopper or manual. Mine has a long thread coming out of it with a bolt on the end and a locknut. But is a small thread, not large like I have seen others.

If the thread is visible when fitted then it will be a manual type.
The stopper mod is a modification to the standard one; in both standard and stoppered they look like Honda intended and there is no visible thread showing.

Sound like good news for you!

Cool. Its a very tidy job.

[adewhitmarsh]

The stopper mod is ok & it works,but you will need to change the auto,s after the failure the best thing is fit mauls, job done.just need to adjust a very few thousand miles.