Europe - In or Out?

[MacV2]

rollingthunderx is back too. OMG.

I've not read through the whole thread so apologies if this has been covered but some little info on the TTIP that may sway some decisions.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... trade-deal

Then there is this that is worth a listen.
http://forbiddenknowledgetv.net/joseph- ... ssia-27672

Now I am not for or against the EU. I really can't decide and don't think what we say makes a hell of a difference to the vote either way. Politicians do what they want and I'm sure they will control the media into brainwashing us and sway the vote in the direction they have planned. And if that don't work they will just fiddle the numbers.

If we leave the EU there is a good chance that the TTIP will go ahead for us and we will keep the ties with US. Now you know what that means don't you. There's a good possibility we will end up going to war with Europe in the long run in this big game of Risk (remember the board game) as the powers to be in the world find they place and reposition themselves. Especially if Europe gains alliance with Russia. This will be long after Trump gets assassinated and they put the Clintons (new world order) back into power.

Steven D Kelley, a former CIA/NSA contractor, told Press TV in March that the entire US establishment is plotting to defeat Trump, because the maverick billionaire poses a threat to the New World Order.

He added that Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton “is the favorite of the New World Order.

http://presstv.ir/Detail/2016/05/05/464 ... elligence/

TTIP will be a really bad thing and opens the doors to more genetic foods, no strict regulated pharma's etc. Not to mention even less privacy, especially online. You can say goodbye to freedom of speech. Watch out they will send their robot dogs over here next. It's not us that have to worry so much, but think about the kids future as the US plans to take over the world and have one new world order. We have a few more wars to go through first before they get there. They have almost got the middle East. They are already moving in on the Russians. Weapons in the Eukraine, it will be bases next, then there are bases in Afgan. They have to wipe out half the population of the world first as then it's easier to take control and then rebuild on their terms. I mean no disrespect to the US citizens they are the innocent in this, but US politics in particular their foreign policies is not good and they are basically doing what Hitler tried but in a more underhand way. It's the new world order.

http://www.blacklistednews.com/The_Pent ... 8/Y/M.html

Yeahhh Carlos is back!

Tin Foil hats everybody !

[VTRDark]

ROLFO

[StormingHonda]

I'm sure your find we were doing well for hundreds of years before we joined the EU

Funnily enough reading up on local history

In 1565 Queen Elizabeth allowed refugees from Holland to come to Colchester (in fact Colchester requested that they come), where they made bays, a kind of cloth. By 1575 at least 500 Dutch settlers had come to Colchester. The area north of the High Street became known as the Dutch quarter. They significantly boosted the economy, set up their own churches, and provided alms for the town's poor.

In 1648 Following the English Civil War The people of Colchester were also forced to pay a fine of 12,000 pounds (a very large sum in those days) as restitutions for the Siege of Colchester. At least half of it was paid by the Dutch population and is indicatitive of their contribution to the local economy.

At the end of the 17th century a travel writer, Celia Fiennes described the town: 'Colchester is a large town. You enter the town by a gate. There are 4 in all. There is a large street which runs a great length down to the bridge, its nearly a mile long. Through the middle of it runs another broad street nearly the same length in which is the Market Cross and Town Hall and a long building, like stalls, on which they lay their bays, exposed for sale. Great quantities are made here and sent in bales to London. The whole town is employed in spinning, weaving, washing, drying and dressing their bays in which they seem very industrious. The town looks a thriving place judging by the substantial houses. It has well paved streets, which are broad enough for 2 coaches to go abreast'.

Funny ol' thing history...

Yeah it is Wicky, especially when I'm trying to work out what the hell is your point

[Wicky]

Even though Britain is an island throughout history there hasn''t really been a period where we isolated ourselves from the outside world and pulled up the 'drawbridge', apart from when slavery was abolished but then more Europeans snuck in ;-).

A summary history of immigration to Britain

Roman times: About 125,000 migrants in the British Isles out of a population of 4 million, about 3%

Anglo Saxons ,Vikings and Normans: It has been estimated that the inflows from Viking invasions may have made up as much as 4-8% of the total population.

Norman settlers eventually made up as much as 5% of the population.

The Middle Ages: Quite sizable numbers of Flemings also came to England in the middle ages, bringing with them knowledge of industries and crafts not present in the country at the time.

The sixteenth century onwards: In 1610, it was estimated that about 10,000 of the 300,000 people living in London were born abroad.

African Migration: From the 1650s the numbers of Africans brought to the British Isles began to increase markedl and by the late eighteenth century there is documented evidence that tens of thousands of people of African descent lived in Britain.

Jewish Migration: Although Jews were expelled from England in 1290, Jewish immigration resumed centuries later and by 1734 it was estimated that were around 6,000 Jews in England. In 1800, it was estimated that there were around 15,000-20,000 Jewish people living in Britain. By the 1940s, the Jewish population of Britain was about 400,000 and had come mostly in four major waves. The first of those waves broadly consisted of merchants from Portugal, Amsterdam and other Western European Commercial Cities in the sixteenth century, which was followed by the arrival of poor Jews from other parts of Europe in the 18th Century. At the end of the 19th century a larger wave came from Tsarist Russia and Eastern Europe. Another wave from Nazi Germany came in the 1930s- with perhaps as many as 100,000 coming.

European Migration: French Protestants, or Huguenots first arrived in numbers from France after the St Bartholomew’s Day massacre in Paris in 1572. After political unrest in France in the late 17th Century Huguenots again migrated to Britain in their thousands, with some sources claiming that 50,000 eventually came from the combined episodes of migration. In 1709 German refugees known as ‘Poor Palatines’, fleeing French invasion, began to move to England with perhaps as many as 13,000 arriving. There is also a long standing history of migration from Eastern Europe to the UK. Polish merchants began arriving in England in the sixteenth century, and in the eighteenth century, a number of Polish Protestants immigrated to England. After the failed uprising against the Russian Empire in the 1831, several thousand Polish insurgents moved to London. By the 1901 Census there were 82,844 Eastern Europeans living in Britain. During the Second World War, hundreds of thousands of Poles were stationed in Britain and the Polish resettlement Act of 1947 offered citizenship to 200,000 Polish soldiers who did not wish to return to a Soviet dominated Poland. The 1951 Census subsequently recorded 162,339 Poles living in Britain. After the Second World War quite large numbers of other Eastern Europeans were allowed to settle in Britain many of whom were actively recruited to work in Britain as part of an overseas workers scheme- one of the very few episodes of a ‘guest workers’ scheme in British history.

Commonwealth Immigration after World War Two: The average number of acceptances for settlement in the 1970s was 72,000 per year; in the 1980s and early 1990s it was about 54,000 per year. From 1998 onwards, numbers began to increase very substantially. In 1998, net Commonwealth migration leapt to 82,000 and continued to grow before peaking at 156,000 in 2004 before beginning to decline.

[StormingHonda]

Why are you talking about immigration?.

I wasn't referring to immigration, I was referring to the fact that as a nation we are capable of standing on our own two feet.

As I have said before I am not anti immigration, but I am against mass immigration and I think we should be more selective in who we allow in.

[VTRDark]

Yeh we shouldn't have allowed Obama over here trying to tell is which way to vote. I thought that was bang out of order and blatant manipulation. As for immigration it wont make that much difference if we are in or out the EU unless they catch the illegals. Basically tighten up the border controls and patrol our waters more. It's no good having ships out in the Mediterranean when they are needed here. All they are doing is helping them get here by saving them from drowning. I'm not saying we should let them drown but we should concentrate on our own borders more. It's certainly a hard decision this EU thing as there are so many factors to it. Pro's and con's.

Then there is the currency. What are we going to do when Wall Street crashes again and it will happen and it will be even bigger next time according to the economists. The US defence are already planning on turning to blockchain (bitcoin) technology as a means payment, along with communications for their troops. They will need to still pay their troops when there is anarchy over there to keep some kind of control. If we join the EU will we still keep the Pound.

http://www.cyberwar.news/2016-05-13-nat ... tcoin.html

There's certainly going to be some interesting times ahead. Major changes in the world and rearrangements of world population and a lot of deaths. The next world war could be only around the corner. Tensions are rising including Russia who have increased their games, testing our response time with flying bombers capable of carrying nukes into what we call places of interest. Basically borderlining our airspace causing us to scramble Typhoons more often. This is because of of our interests in Ukraine.

[youtube][/youtube]

[tony.mon]

Can anyone explain to me why we couldn't continue trading with EU based business if we were no longer a member of the EU?

I keep seeing the value of sales into and purchases made from the EU as a reason to stay in, but I can't see why that would prevent us doing business with them if a vote to leave takes place and is actioned.

Tariffs are a possible reason, but they are usually only put in place to protect home businesses that are unable to trade viably on a world scale- i.e. another country undercuts their prices, as is happening with our Steel industry at the moment. Can't see the UK govt putting tariffs on steel imports, though.

[VTRDark]

Can anyone explain to me why we couldn't continue trading with EU based business if we were no longer a member of the EU?

We can, that's simply political brainwashing. Why would a business take their custom elsewhere and loose out on profits. We dealt with other countries before the EU so this makes no sense. All it does is add import tax so we can can say goodbye to customs charges when buying from Europe.

As for big trade, Gas comes form Russia, we have the Chinese contracted out to build nuclear power stations, we get most of our clothes from India and places like Taiwan, electronics are Chinese and Japanese so what exactly do we get from Europe....smelly cheese. The steel industry is a bit of a worry, we should work on keeping British Steel going and all those up North still employed so there's a pro to not joining Europe. It wouldn't surprise me if that industry has been deliberately sabotaged as a way to push us towards Europe. Sacrifice our own people for a cause like the yanks done with the WTC.

[redpig]

We had no choice in the decision to join, our (spit) government decided what was best for us.
Or was it best for them, I don't know.

b8stard politicians, in my opinion lower than shark sh1t.

I'm not a huge fan you know, the whole business stinks.

[sirch345]

Worth a look:-
https://www.brexitthemovie.com

Chris.

[simon t]

Good piece in this month's 'Bike' magazine about the problems of biking abroad if we leave the EU. Just don't get injured...

[redpig]

Surely the answer to that would be don't go abroad without insurance?

[VTRDark]

What.....you mean as we did before with no problems before the days of EHIC cards. Yep there are lot bigger issues at stake than health abroad like health in the UK.

What makes me laugh is how the media keep going on about Roaming charges abroad WTF who cares it's a poxy mobile phone. If your on holiday then you should not be using a phone. If it's business abroad then you can afford the charges. But why the heck is the media introducing Roaming charges as part of argument to stay in the EU. And what's worse there are people out there making decisions on this basis. The same with the migrant situation in the UK, it wont make any difference to that whether we are in or out. We will still allow them here for the sake of humanity.



The economic migrants is something else and they are mostly not migrants but illegal immigrants. The same with the migrants that are generally trying to reach safety by illegally rolling off sinking boats. I noticed the media recently are brainwashing us by introducing news on migrants rolling off boats in UK waters now. It's not just the med. Ask yourselves why the news are doing this because it's nothing new, yet it has not been in the news before.

What's more important is that we break free from the US which is toxic.

[redpig]

the decison will go the way of the most fear generated

[rollingthunderx2]

If we pull out of the EU we are going to lose all our employment safeguards, and will be wombles over big time by industry.
If it wasnt for "immigrants" we wouldnt have enough doctors or nurses.
We will NOT save money by leaving the EU.
Interesting that even the Mail on sunday is writing about the links between the RDL, National Front, and Britain First and the Leave campaign.

Just saying here...remember what happened in 1939.

And to those saying "we fought and died to keep britain great", tell that to Lee Rigbys family, who want nothing to do with Nationalist right wing wombles using his name.

Why is it that the majority of "leavers" cannot write or spell???