Europe - In or Out?

[Mav617]

Brexit, the con.

Pretty good read that. She's right in many ways, but the "common man" has felt shafted by the EU for many years and been ignored.

[Demonic69]

Was this really a victory for UKIP? The press and the remainers keep bleating on about Farage and UKIP but the majority of people I know who voted to leave had no interest in Farage, UKIP or Immigrants for that matter. UKIP don't benefit, actually they lose one of their major bargaining chips at election time. Farage gains no power and loses his MEP wage, yay for him. It's just another way for the papers and ReMOANers to make this a right-wing victory because being even remotely right-wing is now seen as an insult.

The stats that show who voted for what are a load of balls. They take circumstantial data and present it as fact. The fact is that we don't know how the people voted. Some charts showing the ages, wages and education of the population of an area can lead to implications and that is all. They may as well have said all areas with a river or more than 3 churches voted one way or another. A poll outside a University or a working men's club might yield some statistically-biased data, but that's the point; drive the wedge deeper.

Why don't we strike up a petition demanding an election for the new PM, then we can start the machine back up again and give everyone something to moan about now the football's over.

The markets were briefly manipulated to make a few extra £billionaires and life goes on.
Get us out, give it a few years and the new trading bloc we create will start to eclipse the EU without all the b0ll0x that comes with "Membership" and "Free" trade (Free trade; just costs you a few £billion and you have to accept free movement of people)
You can live on Hope, even if you live in Hathersage.

[Stratman]

What saddens me is that it all seems to boil down to economics and money. There are far better reasons to be part of a family of nations and this drive to nationalism (across Europe too) is worrying and potentially downright dangerous.

[Wicky]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 18626.html

[StormingHonda]

To be fair, Nigel Farage is very insignificant in all this, so his resignation will mean very little, I did enjoy his speeches in the European parliament though.

I think the rise of nationalism blame can be landed squarely at the door of the big wigs in Europe, I speak to a lot of Europeans, who have said that they have suffered immensely since the introduction of the Euro and even more so now since poorer economies from the ex communist have been allowed in, not only with money being taxed from the better off and siphoned into those countries but the effects of mass immigration of people from these countries looking for work and a better life ( and who can blame them, we would all do it if we were in their shoes ).

A lot of the Dutch, French and so on are not only not surprised but even enviable.

[Stratman]

To be fair, Nigel Farage is very insignificant in all this, so his resignation will mean very little, I did enjoy his speeches in the European parliament though.

I think the rise of nationalism blame can be landed squarely at the door of the big wigs in Europe, I speak to a lot of Europeans, who have said that they have suffered immensely since the introduction of the Euro and even more so now since poorer economies from the ex communist have been allowed in, not only with money being taxed from the better off and siphoned into those countries but the effects of mass immigration of people from these countries looking for work and a better life ( and who can blame them, we would all do it if we were in their shoes ).

A lot of the Dutch, French and so on are not only not surprised but even enviable.

I think that part of the strategy was to integrate ex iron curtain countries before Putin subsumed them into a new quasi soviet. Not for nothing is it that the only world politicians in favour of our leaving the EU are Putin and Trump.

[Demonic69]

What saddens me is that it all seems to boil down to economics and money. There are far better reasons to be part of a family of nations and this drive to nationalism (across Europe too) is worrying and potentially downright dangerous.

Why be part of a controlling, expensive and tiny family, when we could be part of a global family with fewer restrictions? Why settle for the EU when the world beckons?
All this talk of "little England", what about "Little EU"?
Nationalism it's what's driven the world for generations, unless you're advocating communism this one big happy European family is just never going to work. And nor should it. We should be allowed and encouraged to be proud of where we're from, instead of ashamed and pushed to yearn for some acceptance by countries that don't like us.

[StormingHonda]

To be fair, Nigel Farage is very insignificant in all this, so his resignation will mean very little, I did enjoy his speeches in the European parliament though.

I think the rise of nationalism blame can be landed squarely at the door of the big wigs in Europe, I speak to a lot of Europeans, who have said that they have suffered immensely since the introduction of the Euro and even more so now since poorer economies from the ex communist have been allowed in, not only with money being taxed from the better off and siphoned into those countries but the effects of mass immigration of people from these countries looking for work and a better life ( and who can blame them, we would all do it if we were in their shoes ).

A lot of the Dutch, French and so on are not only not surprised but even enviable.

I think that part of the strategy was to integrate ex iron curtain countries before Putin subsumed them into a new quasi soviet. Not for nothing is it that the only world politicians in favour of our leaving the EU are Putin and Trump.

Yes I can see that, and you are correct, especially with what has happened and still going on in eastern Europe, the only problem with that, is that is has put such an immense pressure on the western European countries in terms of social and economics that it could be the very cause of the break up of the EU or will weaken its stance and power, I would have preferred a smaller but united Europe, and most citizen of southern and western Europe would agree.

[VTRDark]

Putin doesn't need people in Russia as he has a Botnet zombie army for income. There's just as many if not more wars below ground than above.

What's done is done now. What's important is how we move on from where we are at now. It doesn't make too much difference who's in Parliament and controlling things as whoever is there is only there for themselves and their party, not the people. That's just showmanship and they don't care who they step on while in power as long as it brings them wealth. The next party will get voted in eventually, blame the opposition for the wrong doing, bullshit us on how they intend to fix things and do the same. Then it all starts the circle of change once again.

Things would work better if all party's worked as a team and held a yearly AGM to who chairs it. Work in a similar fashion to small country clubs. The way politics is set up now is all way too overcomplicated and designed in such a way to confuse us along with the bickering and blaming each other for things that go on.

[tony.mon]

Damn!
Just found out that the only countries capable of building Gunboats are all in Europe.
Ah, well, nothing for it but to press the Woolwich Ferries into action again, there must be a gun or two in the Woolwich Arsenal that would bolt on the front, with a bit of cutting and welding.

I think we should take Hong Kong back first, then perhaps, once Trump is in charge of Non-Europe, we could offer him some mirrors, blankets and beads for Manhattan. It worked well enough last time....

[Stratman]

Damn!
Just found out that the only countries capable of building Gunboats are all in Europe.
Ah, well, nothing for it but to press the Woolwich Ferries into action again, there must be a gun or two in the Woolwich Arsenal that would bolt on the front, with a bit of cutting and welding.

I think we should take Hong Kong back first, then perhaps, once Trump is in charge of Non-Europe, we could offer him some mirrors, blankets and beads for Manhattan. It worked well enough last time....

....and then we take Berlin?

[AMCQ46]

Damn!
Just found out that the only countries capable of building Gunboats are all in Europe.
Ah, well, nothing for it but to press the Woolwich Ferries into action again, there must be a gun or two in the Woolwich Arsenal that would bolt on the front, with a bit of cutting and welding.

I think we should take Hong Kong back first, then perhaps, once Trump is in charge of Non-Europe, we could offer him some mirrors, blankets and beads for Manhattan. It worked well enough last time....

....and then we take Berlin?

very good

went to Dublin to see him because Mrs McQ's big sis and her hubby were both 60s hippies and wanted to see him live. he was amazing [well his band did most of the hard work, but he wrote the poetry].

and to keep on topic, both Berlin and Dublin are still in Europe

[Stratman]

Damn!
Just found out that the only countries capable of building Gunboats are all in Europe.
Ah, well, nothing for it but to press the Woolwich Ferries into action again, there must be a gun or two in the Woolwich Arsenal that would bolt on the front, with a bit of cutting and welding.

I think we should take Hong Kong back first, then perhaps, once Trump is in charge of Non-Europe, we could offer him some mirrors, blankets and beads for Manhattan. It worked well enough last time....

....and then we take Berlin?

very good

went to Dublin to see him because Mrs McQ's big sis and her hubby were both 60s hippies and wanted to see him live. he was amazing [well his band did most of the hard work, but he wrote the poetry].

and to keep on topic, both Berlin and Dublin are still in Europe

There's a whole load of people scratching their heads and thinking

[AMCQ46]

keep them guessing

[Stratman]

keep them guessing

I will. For so long, Marianne.