Europe - In or Out?

[Demonic69]

You couldn't make it up...

The UK's Brexit negotiators are going to have to be hired from abroad

Actually, the Indy probably would.
Why do we need hundreds of trade negotiators when we could just, Oh I don't know..., trade with the countries, outside the EU, like we have been doing for decades?

[Wicky]

Why do we need hundreds of trade negotiators...

er because they've been cut back: "the Government has about 40 trade negotiators, compared with the 550 employed by the EU."

Source - The Torygraph > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/201 ... xperts-wa/

[Wicky]

Nurse shortage 'could last for years' > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-36729108

A shortage of nurses in the UK will continue for years to come and could get worse, experts are predicting.

The warnings follow a report from early 2016 on the nursing workforce compiled by the Institute for Economic Studies for the Migration Advisory Committee.

The authors cite the ageing workforce, poor planning by government and the risks from Brexit as key problems.

A Department of Health spokesman said that retaining home-grown nurses was a "top priority" for the government.

The report prompted the government to relax rules and grant up to 15,000 visas for nurses from outside the European single market over the next three years.

But its publication was put off during the EU referendum, so it is only now that the full scale of the problem is revealed.

The report highlighted evidence showing the NHS was already short of nurses - with one in 10 posts unfilled.

...

Foreign nurses now make up 13% of the workforce with a third of them coming from the EU - a source which the report authors believe could start to dry up in the coming years following the vote to leave.

Report author Rachel Marangozov believes nurses could be put off by the prospect of Brexit which, together with the other factors, means the recruitment of extra nurses from the rest of the world will "not be sufficient" to plug the gap in the workforce.

[Demonic69]

Why do we need hundreds of trade negotiators...

er because they've been cut back: "the Government has about 40 trade negotiators, compared with the 550 employed by the EU."

Source - The Torygraph > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/201 ... xperts-wa/

"Even the least challenging route for Brexit – the so-called “Norway option” – would entail the civil service taking back powers over defence, security, justice, agriculture and fisheries"
According to the Remain campaign we have all of these powers currently, funny how the "facts" are coming out isn't it?
So we have to recruit (or look at our other sectors for people with experience). If it's cheaper than £160million a week then we're golden.

I've several nurses in the family and they all say that it's too difficult to get into nursing if you're British - not because of immigrants, because of the system currently in place. Maybe if they change that they could actually entice people into nursing instead of driving them away from it and relying on outside help.

[Wicky]

Re nursing - yup Especially with govt cutting bursaries and making nurses get loans - so they'll effectivelly get student nurses literally pay to work on the wards which is a major part of the course to gather practical experience. - despite them only supposedly working supernumerary.

Even if was to change tomorrow to be more an attractive profession, expand the capacity, the benefits of more homegrown nurses wouldn't be available for a least 3 years.

[Demonic69]

Re nursing - yup Especially with govt cutting bursaries and making nurses get loans - so they'll effectivelly get student nurses literally pay to work on the wards which is a major part of the course to gather practical experience. - despite them only supposedly working supernumerary.

Even if was to change tomorrow to be more an attractive profession, expand the capacity, the benefits of more homegrown nurses wouldn't be available for a least 3 years.

If we applied the same standards to our nurses that we do to foreign nationals we could meet the requirements within a year.
Nurses in the UK are expected to have a degree, applicants from abroad are assessed on their qualifications and then should have a competency test, then they can work unsupervised. Some foreign nursing qualifications can be attained in as few as 6 months, apparently, and some are even tailored to help pass the competency exam set by the NMC. If these nurses are "good enough" then why can't we employ a system to get people into nursing faster, then to train and progress vocationally?
Maybe if we sacked the hundreds of overpaid NHS managers we could afford a better system

[Wicky]

There is a system of training Health Care Assistances as nurses if they've a few years experience beforehand - but the jump and push froom unqualified role to degree puts a lot off but they do get their HCA pay of 15k for three years - plus a lot of HCAs are now EU workers. A few years back HCAs were encouraged to do NVQs with a promise of a payrise when they qualified - that was taken away by the govt.

The bursary nurses qualify with a diploma (debt free) which the govt is cutting and while degree qualified nurses end up with £50,000 debt. Funnily enough some degree qualified nurses are fast tracked into management roles... (as aften despite their academic care qualifications its safer for patients as they are better at writing essays than administrating fundamental care) or to avoid burn out at a relatively young age from burn out (I've seen 25 year old ward matrons hospitalised from stress).

A lot of nurses are now doing the jobs that a few years back that would have been the responsibility of doctors /specialists and HCAs are doing the hands on role of nurses - a lot like the Police with the increased role of civillian workers/Police community support officers trying to maintain a similar service while trying to cut labour costs.

Heck why pay anyone at all - as a few public services are actively seeking unpaid volunteers (on top of the supernumary students in hospitals) to feed patients / patrol the streels as special constables.

http://www.colchesterhospital.nhs.uk/re ... eers.shtml

https://www.police.uk/volunteering/

[VTRDark]

Heck why pay anyone at all -

Well it is all heading in that direction with low wages and the increase of voluntary work/slave labour, more folk on benefits.

Maybe we should all work for nothing and get dished out vouchers like food vouchers back in the war. As long as everyone gets an equal amount then all should be good. Do we really need money. If everything was free there would be no need for it. Money is a commercial product designed around the commercial world mugging us off. All we really need to survive is a roof over our heads, food on the table and something to occupy our time. Lets all live a more communal lifestyle, abandon the supermarkets and housing market, have more gardens and farms. Free energy is available but it does not work or rather it's made to not work and pushed aside accept in microscopic doses. There is no reason why we cant build our own homes and make a fire to boil water and cook on accept it's made illegal and they want everyone working pushing money higher up the ladder and into the pockets of the greedy ones, mainly commercialism and into the governments pockets. All we need is to be given a bit of land which should be equal to everyone else, given a job to do and so many vouchers and away we go. We haven't moved that far from the days where the king would gather his men and steal taxes from the people.

[Demonic69]

Heck why pay anyone at all -

Well it is all heading in that direction with low wages and the increase of voluntary work/slave labour, more folk on benefits.

Maybe we should all work for nothing and get dished out vouchers like food vouchers back in the war. As long as everyone gets an equal amount then all should be good. Do we really need money. If everything was free there would be no need for it. Money is a commercial product designed around the commercial world mugging us off. All we really need to survive is a roof over our heads, food on the table and something to occupy our time. Lets all live a more communal lifestyle, abandon the supermarkets and housing market, have more gardens and farms. Free energy is available but it does not work or rather it's made to not work and pushed aside accept in microscopic doses. There is no reason why we cant build our own homes and make a fire to boil water and cook on accept it's made illegal and they want everyone working pushing money higher up the ladder and into the pockets of the greedy ones, mainly commercialism and into the governments pockets. All we need is to be given a bit of land which should be equal to everyone else, given a job to do and so many vouchers and away we go. We haven't moved that far from the days where the king would gather his men and steal taxes from the people.

Sounds like communism to me

[VTRDark]

I actually think that the principles behind communism is a good one. It just that when it comes to the practicalities of it that it does not work. There's always gong to be someone that is greedy and wants to rob from the poor to make the rich richer and wars will still continue. Selfish species we are. It's certainly a complicated world and life when being human. Aliens must be watching down on us having a good laugh at how stupid we are.

[Salty Dog]

[tony.mon]

Hold the line, boys, steady now.
With courage and fortitude we will win the day, and soon the French will be begging us to join the United Kingdom.
They've already sneakily joined in the Five Nations rugby competition, and hoped that we hadn't noticed.....

[Kev L]

Ahhh, nice to see you're up to date Mousier Mon, it's been the six nations for a fair while now, the Italians were allowed to join so Scotland had someone to beat!!! Best laid plans of mice and men and all that!

[AMCQ46]

Ahhh, nice to see you're up to date Mousier Mon, it's been the six nations for a fair while now, the Italians were allowed to join so Scotland had someone to beat!!! Best laid plans of mice and men and all that!

sad but true........ Scotland are looking to see if any very small unpopulated islands also want to join the rugby so the we can try and beat them.

[Kev L]

What, no abuse you're slipping matey