Lane discipline at roundabouts/highway code interpretation?

[Hanuman]

This is for my Daughter - i'll fight this one til my teeth fall out.

sorry if this is long, it'll only take a few minutes of your time - any comments appreicated.

Bike related cos if i get points i'll lose my Cat A!

I have an ongoing saga with a third party insurance company who want to refer the matter to court it's a bit of a piss take really.

First the question then i'll explain the scenario.

Q - your on a dual carriageway - national speed limit applies. You reach a big roundabout. The roundabout is a plain cross type roundabout with 4 exits.

The approach to the roundabout is two lanes with no arrows/markings to indicate particular lanes for intended travel. The dual carrigeway which continues straight ahead at the second exit rejoins again with two lanes.

Can you use both lanes to go straight ahead?

.....

In my experience the left hand lane is for the first or second exit only, the right hand lane is for the second (also called intermediate) exit or any thereafter, this is for dual carriageways only. If a single carriageway has two lanes approaching a roundabout, but one lane to rejoin straight ahead then it is my experience to always use the left hand lane unless road markings dictate otherwise, to go straight ahead.

here's what the highway code say's...

162: Roundabouts - Signals and position, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise.

When taking the first exit
• signal left and approach in the left-hand lane
• keep to the left on the roundabout and continue signalling left to leave.

When taking any intermediate exit
• select the appropriate lane on approach to and on the roundabout, signalling as necessary
• stay in this lane until you need to alter course to exit the roundabout
• signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want.

When taking the last exit or going full circle
• signal right and approach in the right-hand lane
• keep to the right on the roundabout until you need to change lanes to exit the roundabout
• signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want.
When there are more than three lanes at the entrance to a roundabout, use the most appropriate lane on approach and through it.

...........

This is what happened. Last October. Thankfully no one was injured.

Small shopping car (clio or something) with 4 pensioners on board. Sister of car owner driving as he was ill. all retired biddy's, someones mam and dad and someones grandparents i guess...

Car is in left hand lane. I am in right hand lane. We are both advancing together onto the roundabout.

As we manouvre the roundabout there is a car parked in the left hand lane, prior to the second exit. the parked car is not using any warning hazards or indicating.

The roundabout has a large expanded sweeping left hand lane, for lorries to manouvre easily.

The car travelling in the left hand lane is not indicating any intention.

As I manouvre around the roundabout I indicate to rejoin the right hand lane of the dual carriageway - second exit. As I do this I realise that the old woman driving the car in the left hand lane has not anticipated the parked car - Assuming that she will be also taking the second exit - but in the left hand lane - I give her lots of room to manouvre the parked car, bearing in mind the lane she is in is large enough for two cars anyway, I give her more room. She did not slow down, She did not indicate, She swerved irratically around the parked car.

By this time I was already making my continuation to rejoin the dual cariageway, in the right hand lane, therefore crossing the left hand lane of the roundabout to proceed.

This is when the Old lady smacked into the rear section of my vehicle, foward edge of gaf panel (between back door and wheel arch). right where my 6 year old daughter was sitting.

When we got out of our cars, when it was safe to do so in a small layby just after the exit I was met with a barage of accusations and stress from the 4 old biddy occupants.

They admitted that infact they were turning right around the roundabout - without signalling - to take the third exit.

They admitted to have never even seen me.

The lady driver admitted to being unfamiliar with the car, the area and the whole concept of piloting a horseless carriage - it seemed.


Now they have changed their story with the insurer suggesting they were in fact taking the second exit - they are saying there was no parked car, they are saying I was speeding across the roundabout - which is why they never saw me, they say I was in the wrong lane and cut in front of them to take the left hand lane of the 2nd exit. They want to take me to court. I'm fuming to say the least.

My twins (boy and girl) were badly shaken, my daughter wet herself and had nightmares for weeks.

These old folks come/live in Rothbury and thought themselves to be upper class citizens, and me a mere peasant. FFS.

.....

sorry for the rant


So I'm going out this savo on my bike, with camera to take piccies of the roundabout - and other roundabouts with markings and without markings in my area to back up another written report that I will send in to my insurer....

So at least I get a bike ride out of it


cheers

[Kitch]

(not a specialist or qualified in any way, but here's my POV from experience and what I know)

Firstly, hope your daughter has recovered and is OK. The good thing is nobody was seriously pyhisically hurt.

Where there are 2 approach lanes to the roundabout, and no markings to the contrary, the right hand lane is for turning right (3rd exit) or going all the way round is standard practice. So, coming off a dual carriageway, going straight on at the 2nd exit a driving instructer would expect you to use the left hand lane.

There's no markings or anything saying you absolutely must use the left hand lane, but it's done to help avoid the unfortunate situation you encountered.

You might have hassle if there are no witnesses or photos to back up your story. Your insurer won't care who's right, just what costs the least. As it sounds like the only way she could have hit you is if she were continuing to the 3rd exit in the "wrong" lane with no signal, might be able to argue the point there. If it all starts going wrong, you've 3 choices. Accept your insurers course of action (they may fight for a joint liability settlement or just pay out to make it go away - unlikely but I've had this happen) refuse to accept your insurer's action and demand they investigate further, or engage a specialist solicitor. (there are many good ones who will do free phone consultations with you)

Did the police attend? It sounds like they didn't (and normally wouldn't for an RTA where there are no injuries to people) Did you note the reg of the parked car? (if a vehicle's presence is a factor in an accident, they're involved too)

I would just keep up to date and honest about what happened with my insurer and they should be able to sort it out. People lie to avoid liability all the time. Courts and insurers are usually good at sorting out what really happened. Just stay on the case and good luck to ya.

[Gavin]

When doing my advanced motorcycle test got a bollocking for staying in left hand lane behind car, instead of using the right hand lane to go straight ahead and rejoin dual- carriageway on t'other side.

[grinner]

If the markings and lanes are as you say, you're quite right with your positioning etc. If there are two lanes exiting the roundabout you are quite right to use both lanes. So in answer to your question- YES.

I hope your young'uns are ok and not traumatised and the old fart gets all that's coming to her. If she was in the left lane, she MUST continue straight AND in the left lane.

Fight it, Fight it, Fight it

[kevg]

If i've read your post right, i think i'd be doing the same, driving in the right hand lane to go straight on, i've nearly been hit a few times with people in the left lane straight lining the roundabout and crossing my lane.

its a hard one to prove, as there were 4 of them who will all be each others witness, you only have the two kids and no one else.

[kevstorm]

as a dsa motorcycle instructor ,if you approach in the right hand lane of the dual carriageway to the roundabout ,then as long as you leave in the right hand lane of the dual carriageway indicating left on exit ,if you are going straight ahead,then move to the nearside when safe , thats bang on , its called progression ,what you going to do sit behind heavy vehicles etc, im with you mate

[tattie]

I encounter just about the same thing on a regular basis as happened to you. Up here On a roundabout at the end of the dual carriageway on the A9 North of Inverness. Roundabout with 5 exits, the A9 continues straight ahead 3rd exit, you can bet your last £ on the old biddies and especially cars with an SK reg (Caithness) they always sit in the left hand lane and just as you look over your shoulder to exit left more often than not they are giving you the dirty look. Spoke to a local Bobby who's wife had an incident there last year and asked him for his opinion. his reply was always remember to give way to traffic coming from the right. ie it's their fault.

Hope it all works out for you.

Cheers

A.M.

[Hanuman]

spoke to my insurer earlier.

I must have gotten the wrong end of the stick. I was under the impression they where taking 'me' to court and that I would end up done for undue care and attention... am I paranoid or what

as it is - as neither party will admit liability, it's a simple court decision and i've been advised it'll go 50/50 liability. Only the insurer's will be liable for finacial losses. suspose that's why we have insurance

I went out on my bike and took pics of all the roundabouts I have to pass over to get to the one which the incident took place on. every one (except one) had road markings indicating both lanes going straight ahead. The one that didn't have markings - I took pics of tonnes of cars etc going straight ahead on it in the r/h lane.

Then loads of pics of the roundabout in question.

wrote a letter and have it all in a pile to go into an A4 envelope early doors.

it's the sheer principal of the matter.

the 3rd party driver wasn't the owner of the car - old geezer in front seat was the owner and was giving directions. I would have thought retired oldies would have a bit of integrity but nope, they just fabricate their version like any scoundrel would

cheers for the replies. I was foaming earlier - it's good just to get it out.

[sirch345]

Pleased too hear things are not quite as bad as you first thought and the fact that nobody got hurt is the main thing

Going by what you said you've done nothing wrong, I hope the out come will go in your favour Good luck with it

[eddvtr1000]

cubicincubi dont accept the 50/50 and you will pay for it when you come to renew your insurance. non fualt claim !
as far as i remember. pro driver for what its worth any impact rear of the driver in any way or form is classed as a rear ender, therefore the old duffer is in the wrong and you have nothing to answer to.
seriously mate get on to the insurance ombidsman and get them involved, churchill screwed me over a few years back for a hit and run coz some git cloned my car!