Honda Cam Chain Tensioners - Life Expectancy From New

[davebonline]

I know there's loads on here regarding the cam chain tensioner issues, autos, manuals, stopper mods etc. What I was wondering was, do we have a reasonable estimation of what kind of mileage stock autos might fail at. I know there's the general consensus that they can go at any time, but surely brand new Honda CCT's have a certain 'safe' mileage otherwise Honda would have been inundated with failures during the late 90's early 00's?

I have a certain vested interest in this question as my recently aquired '98 Storm had brand new Honda CCT's fitted prior to my collection of the bike. I intend to do either the stopper mod or get manuals, but I'm thinking there must be a certain safe shelf life to new stock ones, surely, if they were/are that volitile then there would have been a recall on the bike back in the day?

Anyway, just interested in peoples thoughts on this as I haven't found a specific answer to this after trawling the various CCT threads on here.

Also, anyone in the Chehisre area who has done either of the CCT mods who might fancy sharing the knowledge?

Ta

[alanfjones1411]

After all the horror stories regarding auto cct's and not wanting the expense or inconvenience of a failure i changed mine at five thousand miles which was on the bike when i bought it.I have no mechanical knowledge at all but managed to do mine following the instructions on this site.It took me a lot longer than the specified time but i managed it.Best to be safe than sorry.

[AMCQ46]

I

Also, anyone in the Chehisre area who has done either of the CCT mods who might fancy sharing the knowledge?

Ta

come down the M6 to my workshop day May 13th, and we can show you what to do / help you do them.

http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 14&t=40565

[Shauned71]

I don't think you will get an exact answer.. when looking about for info and talking about auto ccts a lot of answers are simply opinionated with the only fact that matters being that they certainly are troublesome to say the least and they lack rhyme or reason as to why or when they will go.

Do the auto ccts have a weak spring.. do they snap because of rust due to lack of oiling because of lack of use.. There are folk about that have high mileage bikes. They claim to manually oil the tensioners on a regular basis and because of not ever having suffered cct failure put their trust in the autos... On the other hand I have seen folk buy what looks a tidy and well maintained bike and within weeks they are pulling an engine to bits and I have read stories of bikes in the past that were quite new at the time or had done very little miles and they had failures.

Going by my experience.. 7 storms over 4 years.. all on auto cct and I haven't had to pull a engine to bits yet. Can imagine the response I would get to that on facebook with that... You see folk on here are a tad more dignified compared to some of the idiots on the other side Facebook.. they give me hell! I'd get told it will happen, would be told how dumb I am and what a moron I am and so on... the problem with me is.. it's not that I have faith in autos it's that i'm lazy and I can't be bothered to fit the new manuals that I already have on the shelf.. yea I know.. it makes no sense And in case any one says I'll be sorry.. nah... I probably won't because I won't cost me anything to put right, not that that a good reason to not sort my bike out.

Although I said in 7 bikes no engines in bits.. I have had one tension failure but the cct rattling allowed me to catch the fault before it all went really pear shaped. Just so you know... you don't usually get a warning... I was really lucky. So this I can say is fact... bought my bike feb 2013 with 42k on her... my bike had had new ccts fitted 2009 at approx 38k miles 2 weeks after purchase rattle rattle rattle.. 4 years or 4k miles.. take your pick... those facts alone are enough for me to say.. just don't bother doing the maths to try and justify carrying on with autos.. especially when one option to keeping your bike safe is doing the stopper mod and essentially is free to do.

[davebonline]

I don't think you will get an exact answer.. when looking about for info and talking about auto ccts a lot of answers are simply opinionated with the only fact that matters being that they certainly are troublesome to say the least and they lack rhyme or reason as to why or when they will go.

Do the auto ccts have a weak spring.. do they snap because of rust due to lack of oiling because of lack of use.. There are folk about that have high mileage bikes. They claim to manually oil the tensioners on a regular basis and because of not ever having suffered cct failure put their trust in the autos... On the other hand I have seen folk buy what looks a tidy and well maintained bike and within weeks they are pulling an engine to bits and I have read stories of bikes in the past that were quite new at the time or had done very little miles and they had failures.

Going by my experience.. 7 storms over 4 years.. all on auto cct and I haven't had to pull a engine to bits yet. Can imagine the response I would get to that on facebook with that... You see folk on here are a tad more dignified compared to some of the idiots on the other side Facebook.. they give me hell! I'd get told it will happen, would be told how dumb I am and what a moron I am and so on... the problem with me is.. it's not that I have faith in autos it's that i'm lazy and I can't be bothered to fit the new manuals that I already have on the shelf.. yea I know.. it makes no sense And in case any one says I'll be sorry.. nah... I probably won't because I won't cost me anything to put right, not that that a good reason to not sort my bike out.

Although I said in 7 bikes no engines in bits.. I have had one tension failure but the cct rattling allowed me to catch the fault before it all went really pear shaped. Just so you know... you don't usually get a warning... I was really lucky. So this I can say is fact... bought my bike feb 2013 with 42k on her... my bike had had new ccts fitted 2009 at approx 38k miles 2 weeks after purchase rattle rattle rattle.. 4 years or 4k miles.. take your pick... those facts alone are enough for me to say.. just don't bother doing the maths to try and justify carrying on with autos.. especially when one option to keeping your bike safe is doing the stopper mod and essentially is free to do.

Thanks Shauned71, that's helpful info. Am I right in assuming it's always the fronts that go, no one ever seems to mention the rear CCT?


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[Shauned71]

Thanks Shauned71, that's helpful info. Am I right in assuming it's always the fronts that go, no one ever seems to mention the rear CCT?

Either can go but it's the front that is the common trouble maker. I know of someone who had done the stopper mod to the just the front cct because of it being higher risk only for the rear to fail down the line. Only my opinion but it's because the front fails so many more times than the rears that I don't really get on board with the it's simply a weak spring theory.. surely if it was simply bad designs of or weak springs etc both ccts would fail equally. For me i'm lean towards the lack of oil getting to the front cct idea.. whether it be lack of lube in general or possibly corrosion or metal fatigue in some way due to lack of oil I don't know. I do know it's not a gamble worth taking when taking precautions can be so simple and cheap.

2 of my storms are what I call my bikes.. both currently projects that i'm about to start on aiming to get at least one sorted for the summer... one is on autos but has already had the stopper mod done prior to me getting her... the other is having a engine swap because it already had a rattle, I have a lower miles lump to throw in and I WILL then finally fit my manuals ccts

I wouldn't run around with standard manuals on any bike that I actually cared for.

[lumpyv]

they normally go just after you join this forum

[MacV2]

I always thought that due to the front CCT pointing up any oil in there seeps down, the hot cold cycles of the motor leads to a small amout of condensation which leads to rust on the spring...Could of got that compleatly wrong but I'm sure I seen pics of broken springs with corrosion on them...

[Shauned71]

I always thought that due to the front CCT pointing up any oil in there seeps down, the hot cold cycles of the motor leads to a small amout of condensation which leads to rust on the spring...Could of got that compleatly wrong but I'm sure I seen pics of broken springs with corrosion on them...

I like the theory.. certainly think that the cct pointing up as it does creates a bigger issue.

[8541Hawk]

Well as the mileage king of auto tensioners I guess I should post up.
While most have never seen it, Honda did issue a bulletin on the matter just like they did with the carb hose routing. Which was another bulletin that most didn't know existed.
The only real difference is that I don't have a copy of it.
What it stated was that the ACCTs should be changed every 2nd valve adjustment or every 32K miles.
That is if you follow the 2 rules for running auto CCTs, never let the bike sit and idle on the side stand and don't slam the throttle shut from high rpm.

So IMHO either type of tensioner will work. Though you do need to change them out on a new to you bike as you have no idea if the previous owner broke either of the 2 important rules.

[sirch345]

My 2p worth

In answer to your question, in my experience I'd say there isn't a safe time or mileage you can rely on 100% without failure. IMO there are many things to take into consideration which effect life expectancy of the auto CCT.
It would be more reassuring if there were more members who have experienced no problems with auto CCT's than 8541Hawk and his incredible mileage,

Chris.

[Wicky]

"otherwise Honda would have been inundated with failures during the late 90's early 00's?"

They were, and a petition was sent to Honda sometime around Sept 2003 to try and get them to admit there was a problem.

http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic ... da#p438467

[baycat]

I always thought that due to the front CCT pointing up any oil in there seeps down, the hot cold cycles of the motor leads to a small amout of condensation which leads to rust on the spring...Could of got that compleatly wrong but I'm sure I seen pics of broken springs with corrosion on them...

good logic and makes sense o wise one

[8541Hawk]

I will also add that even though I didn't have any issues with auto units, I have manuals in my bike now.

To be honest, I didn't choose to stay with autos for as long as I did. It just happened that every time I needed to replace them there was a back order on manuals and I had a Honda parts connection and had autos in a day for the same price as a set of manuals.

I do believe that there is a misconception that I recommend the auto units. That really isn't the case but I do understand that fitting a set of manual units can be a bit intimidating for a lot of people.
That is why I have the attitude that if you don't want to fit a set of manual units, then at a minimum, fit a new set of auto units. No matter which you choose, change the tensioners on a new to you VTR.

As for why they fail, I do have a different opinion than most. I believe what really kills them is not the design but operator error.
I say this because there seems to be a belief that you need to let the bike "warm up" before you ride it. So it gets started on the side stand and left to idle to the temp comes up..... the absolute worst thing you can do to your bike IMHO.

My start up\warm up is, get on the bike with all you gear except hat & gloves. Start the bike, put your hat & gloves on. The bike is now ready to go.
Yes take it easy until the temp comes up but this is actually better for the engine than just letting it sit and idle.

With a air cooled bike things are different but with a liquid cooled bike, you want the revs up a bit to circulate the coolant around so the engine warms up evenly. Just letting it chug away at idle doesn't allow this to happen.
What kind of load does it put on the tensioner when the top end heats up quicker then the bottom end? The front could be more susceptible to failure due to uneven heating due to lack of coolant flow. Not saying it is the answer, just another option to consider.

Just wanted to clear things up..... I have no issues with manual units, they work great but you can also use autos if needed with no worry of them just exploding, if taken care of.
Whichever you choose the tensioners must be replaced on a new to you bike.

[VTRDark]

And considering manuals are cheaper than buying new auto's you may as well take that route unless your skint or Scottish and then do the stopper to the ones already fitted. Oh och aye we can buy a bottle of Cardhu but noo we cant buy tensioners.