Frame Headstock bearing seats damaged?

[AMCQ46]

Well I got round to getting the bike out and giving her a road test for the new front end ......... and it looks like I have a problem

I can't get rid of the clunk from the steering head bearings without having to over tighten them, and when they are over tightened the bike starts to weave badly.

So I am now thinking the front end impact not only bent the forks, but it has distorted the bearing seats in the frame where the outer races sit, so there is always a bit of front / back clearance.

And what is annoying me was that I should have worked it out after the original rebuild with Storm forks before I invested in the sexy new front end.
Clues were there, as after every test ride I needed to adjust the steering head brgs and then in its first big ride for OP storm Scotland, they started OK, but mid way through the friday ride up, the were were already as loose as feck, not just under braking, you could feel it over bumps as well. I stupidly assumed that I had not managed to press the bearings home properly [even though I never had any troubles the last 3 times I have fitted Tapers to a Storm], and rather than try and get them set correctly, I stripped the bike down and started then USD conversion....... GGGGRRRR fuc=kity feck !!!!!


So has anybody else had this problem? is it possible on the storm to oval the bearing seats in the frame headstock? and is there any solution or am I looking at a new frame?

and does anybody know of a frame being sold that wasn't involved in a Crash?

[popkat]

Would have thought it would need to be a pretty big impact to oval the headstock, I've seen storm frames that have cracked at the headstock after big impact (didn't Macs do something similar ?)..
So you over tighten them and the clonk goes away ?. that means it's not the forks/brakes/fairing loose/something knocking like brake lines hitting mudguard etc ?..

I'd be having a very close look to see if the frame has a crack. with the amount of people that wheelie these bikes I would have though that a headstock going oval would happen after lots of bad landings and would have come up as an issue on here over the years.


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[AMCQ46]

malc, it's defiantly the steering bearings moving as you can easily feel the relative movement if you put your finger between the cover on the top adjuster nut and the frame when you push it back and forwards.

The way I normally set tapers is when the steering just start to have some added resistance to turning! At that setting it is ok for about 2 gentle stops, then it becomes realy loose and clunky on the brakes, like its lost a half turn of preload. when I kept tightening it and then going for a test ride, in the over tightened setting, the clunk was almost not there, but just noticeable through the bars if you were braking and the road surface was a bit broken. At this point the low speed weave you get from over tightened tapers was just noticeable, but over 3 figures and it was getting scary!,

I think your right though, I need to take it all apart and have a good look for a crack

[VTRDark]

I take it you put new bearings in when you done the forks and they are the same inside diameter of the Storm. I'm thinking your new stem is a diffrent diameter so you would have diffent size bearings. Are you sure that they are a tight interferance fit. The bearing outer will be the same as it's the same size frame but it's the inner diameter I'm thinking off. Did you need to use some heat/ cold to expand contract to get them on. The first thing I would do is change the bearings in case they are dodgy batch / possibly the wrong size and rule them out.

[AMCQ46]

I take it you put new bearings in when you done the forks and they are the same inside diameter of the Storm. I'm thinking your new stem is a diffrent diameter so you would have diffent size bearings. Are you sure that they are a tight interferance fit. The bearing outer will be the same as it's the same size frame but it's the inner diameter I'm thinking off. Did you need to use some heat/ cold to expand contract to get them on. The first thing I would do is change the bearings in case they are dodgy batch / possibly the wrong size and rule them out.

Thanks Carl,
Yes these were a new set of bearings, and so were the ones I used in the first post crash rebuild, using standard storm forks / yokes. The stem I used for this conversion was off an early fireblade, and this was used as it is the same diameter as the storm shaft and uses the same bearings top and bottom ... But it's aluminium.

It's the fact I had the exact same problem on the post crash rebuild, with standard Storm parts as I have now with the Aprillia USD front end, that says I can rule out the forks, yokes, brakes, wheel bearings, mudgaurd and the steering bearing components, because they are all replaced between the 2 builds

[VTRDark]

That doesn't bode well does it mate. Lets hope you can visually see something and if it's the top or bottom. Get some precision measuring tools out make sure it's all an exact circle and hasn't ovaled.

[popkat]

When I fit new bearings I tighten them by hand with just the yokes in (no forks), by hand I mean I tighten them up until they stop (whilst holding the bottom yoke up with my other hand) and give just a nip with my thumb and finger. then install the rest of the front end. I can't remember the last time I needed to do an adjustment after settling in, they stay stable and don't need a readjustment. I do always say to customers to bring the bike back for a tweak if it needs it, but they never seem to. Also I haven't needed to readjust any of my own bikes. Maybe it's a brand thing ?, I use either Pyramid or JMT bearings, these both come with new dust seals so they are a complete kit.


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[StormyRob]

Ah mate. Reading that was depressing. Especially after that front end going in. I hope you manage to resolve it without replacing the frame!

[fabiostar]

strange problem Al. you would think to oval that part of the frame it would take a major impact?...its gona be a pull apart job and you might see something now you know your really looking for a problem ..
have you tried just over tightening them and putting some miles on them to see if the bearings kinda find there own setting?.. that part of the frame is a kinda chunky old part so you would think it would take a fair hit before going outa true

[alanfjones1411]

After doing such an excellent job.I feel your pain Al.Hope you get it sorted out easily.Gutted for you.

[sirch345]

How frustrating.

No point in beating yourself up about it Al as in looking back in hind sight, we've all done that.

Rather an odd one I agree, but at least you now realise it was there with the standard forks.

I set my head bearings up exactly the same way as you posted above.

Get stuck in and inspect everything to do with the head stock, it's almost like you are pulling the steering stem up through the head stock, although I'm sure that would be almost impossible.

Don't dwell on it, just get stuck in when you get the chance, summer is not here yet, good luck,

Chris.

[AMCQ46]

strange problem Al. you would think to oval that part of the frame it would take a major impact?...its gona be a pull apart job and you might see something now you know your really looking for a problem ..
have you tried just over tightening them and putting some miles on them to see if the bearings kinda find there own setting?.. that part of the frame is a kinda chunky old part so you would think it would take a fair hit before going outa true

it was a fairly major impact, 10 to 15 mph to zero in 6inches !!!!!!!!! and when I sent the pats to Motoliner, they said the forks were too bent and creased to be straightened.......and that is bofore the blackened ball bag.

I only did 5 miles with them overtightened, and the weave was getting a bit frisky at 3 figures, but I will try it again as I need to confirm my finding before I tare it all down.

When I fit new bearings I tighten them by hand with just the yokes in (no forks), by hand I mean I tighten them up until they stop (whilst holding the bottom yoke up with my other hand) and give just a nip with my thumb and finger. then install the rest of the front end. I can't remember the last time I needed to do an adjustment after settling in, they stay stable and don't need a readjustment. I do always say to customers to bring the bike back for a tweak if it needs it, but they never seem to. Also I haven't needed to readjust any of my own bikes. Maybe it's a brand thing ?, I use either Pyramid or JMT bearings, these both come with new dust seals so they are a complete kit.

Malc. I used All Balls kit [there is a joke in there somewhere] including seals for both rebuilds and your setting process is almost the same as what I do. Like I said above, I never had to do a readjustment till the post crash rebuild.

[podman]

Pisser, I feel for you mate...never seen it myself but I have read of people filling the area with weld and machining it again to repair cracks and distortions, perhaps a solution for you?

[AMCQ46]

Already started Looking for a replacement frame as a plan B now.

so if anybody has one for sale which has not been in a smash and has not got seized engine mounts. Give me a shout

[fabiostar]

Al iv a frame with V5 here but il check what condition its in. i bought it and just havnt used it. from the peep iv had it looks like it needs powdered as the finish on it is scruffy but il check for you how it actually is looking past the iffy finish in places