Red storm dyno - hp on engine

[lloydie]

Sounds like your hiding something lol , excuses excuses!

[Stephan]

Sounds like your hiding something lol , excuses excuses!

at least I keep you informed, it is true with clutch slip and dyno :-)

[lloydie]

That you do [THUMBS UP SIGN].
Get it fixed as I want to know !

[Varastorm]

Glad to hear your ok after your spill

Shame about the clutch too

What's the final carb setup have you settled for Stephan, mains, needle height etc...

I've been doing my homework & studying dyno graphs from all sorts of V twin bikes & I recon, they make best performance/power at 12.5 AFR.

I was running with Std Keihin 175f - 178r mains but have just changed to DJ mains 185f - 190r. (Only because I didn't have a Keihin 180. Otherwise I would of gone Keihin 178f - 180r)

I did a 200 mile run yesterday & am now getting 45'ish to the gallon & it's pulling really really well now to the red line.

The best mileage & performance ever tbh. Hopefully over 110 bhp now, only dyno time will tell though

[Stephan]

Here is settings summary:
Dr Honda stacks, Pipercross filter, 48 pilots, 188 mains, FactoryPro needles, front clip on the top (leanest), rear one slot down (approx 0,5 mm), two slide holes

Yes, I will be aiming 12.5 afr next year as well

[tony.mon]

I'll shortly be selling my downpipes with lambda sensors in, so you can tune each cylinder individually. Tony

[Stephan]

I'll shortly be selling my downpipes with lambda sensors in, so you can tune each cylinder individually. Tony

Thanks for offer Tony, but I have lambda with data logging tool available. One is enough, it will be done cylinder by cylinder, I have mount in each pipe.

[Stephan]

Been on dyno today, after some more changes I did. Unfortunately I had to go to another place where they had time to do it, so there is no direct comparison ....

Altough there is difference in my feeling, and no noticeble dip anywhere when on the throttle, I have issues on part throttle and low revs where bike is coughing, typically riding in city, open roads feels great. But difference on dyno chart is almost none, graph looks very similar to what I´ve posted before.

There is very lean settings of pilots as well, it was adjusted by lambda reading at 1400k and about 13.8 both cylinders. Next time I will try 13 or 12.8, both cylinders. AFR various front to rear didn´t work for me, still talking only about pilot screws settings at idle ...

Current dyno settings:
188+190 mains, 48 pilots, Fpro needles leanest setting, stock 2 slide holes both carbs, PiperCross filter, Dr Honda stacks

Last dyno settings (page1):
188+188 mains, 48 pilots, Fpro needles front in the middle rear one slot richer, 1 slide hole both carbs, PiperCross filter, Dr Honda stacks

I can confirm 123 BHP on the wheel, as last dyno showed 122. These numbers comes from two different dyno machines (and systems) and can be trusted :-)

There is one graph comparing mine stage1 with well tuned stock engine with BOS exhaust, KN filter, and Dynojet kit, just for referrence, I found it interesting.
Second is AFR taken from exhaust (not specifically from one cylinder) and power.

Next plans: stock needles, 185+188 mains (stock needles are shorter and richer on the top), pilot screw settings, another dyno run

[Stephan]

I went to the carbs, and realized last time I was being dumb, because rear Fpro needle was out of the straight shape after my last installation, part of the learning curve ... :-) Anyway, current setting is 185+188 mains, stock needles without washers, 48 pilots 1,75+1,9 turns out. Low end is now correct, and there is some dip or flat spot at 4-5k due to rich condition, but small and good rideable. I just feel that 6k above is stronger, but I´ve never seen stage1 with flat curve from 3-9k, there was alway boost after 5k. Top end still running strong as ever.

Next dyno is booked 8th June at 16 pm.

[Stephan]

here is the graph from last dyno performed 8th Jun, compared to previous measurement. I had no time to post it due to workload ...

Blue line is current setup, 185+188 mains, oem needles without washers, 48 pilots 1.75+1.9 turns out, as stated before. Surprisingly, you don´t see much difference , it is just leaner, but power on WOT is very similar. But there is huge difference in low revs and part throttle, bike is now good rideable everywhere.
One important thing is that this measurement was taken when ambient temperature was 15 deg higher, in comparable conditions new setup may look stronger.
Dip at 5k seems to be part of the characteristic of my setup, most likely arrow full exhaust or DrHonda stacks is causing it, as it was similar before stg1. But even with this dip, power (or torque) at 5k is the same as stock vtr does, but good tuned ones are stronger here.
I will leave it for a while, but for sure this flat spot at 5k is something working in my mind, altough bike feeling is fine. If I don´t see the graph, I would say it is okay everywhere ...

pictures are not the best, I was not bright enough at the moment to ask for printscreen ...

[VT1000r]

This is approximate but I recon the VTR carb zones pivot at these revs-
Pilot:- 0 - 4500rpm
Needle:- 4500 - 7000rpm
Mains:- 7000 - 10,000rpm

They are approximate, but they will put you in the right ball park.


What throttle position would those rpms be at?

[VT1000r]

Problem is not afr itself, but speed of change, it is going rich too quickly, and biggest drop is betwen 4.5-5. Though 5-6 is not ideal.

Its all about the afr Stephan, nothing else. The reason there is a fast change between 4.5-5 is that your pilot (too rich) & needles (way too lean) are way out.

I recon the Pipercross is leaning everything out also, your mains are right but the piper is making it too lean.

This is what I learnt from changing my jets & needles, & how much a change to the afr makes per clip height & jet size.

I also feel that all the jets have a slight influence on each of the fuelling zone's.

This is approximate but I recon the VTR carb zones pivot at these revs-
Pilot:- 0 - 4500rpm
Needle:- 4500 - 7000rpm
Mains:- 7000 - 10,000rpm

They are approximate, but they will put you in the right ball park.

Using a free flow filter will lean a jet size across the graph, (10 on the afr) but am sure they have a lot to do with air turbulence as well.
1 clip height (1mm) = 10 on the afr.
1 main jet size = 10 on the afr.
1 pilot jet size = 10 on the afr.
Pilot screw, .5 - 3.5 = 10 on the afr.

So from reading your graph, this is what I would try if I was in your shoes

Mains I recon, If you remove the Pipercross your mains will be good.
Midrange I recon, that you rich dip @ 5750rpm might go as low as 8-1, so I would drop the needle about 3mm (maybe more).
Pilot I recon, #52's.
Screw I recon, @2 turns out.

Give it a go, nothing to lose & everything to gain

I thought you tuned carbs based on throttle position not rpm if I'm wrong what gear do you use for those rpms?

[VT1000r]

Good to hear you are making progress.
I'm still waiting on slides but will let you know if I find anything else, due to the exhaust, once I get them fitted.
I am running different needles, though I am looking into that right now

4K-5K is on the needles but the pilot circuit still has a lot of affect on that range.

You could try opening the pilots a little to see what happens before you head to the dyno.

I have a question, I was under the impression that throttle position was what you tuned by and not rpm because throttle position can very at certain rpms depending on gear, so my thinking is that ide open throttle no matter the rpm the slide is all the way up so how could needle tapper affect 5 to 7rpms or whatever if when you go full throttle the slide is in the same position throughout 1000 to 10000 rpms. What I'm thinking and please correct me if I'm incorrect about anything but I'm thinking that it has to do with intake length and port size/carb size diameter and/or exhaust diameter and length.

[Stephan]

If you wide open the throttle in low revs, needle goes up with some speed depending on airbox configuration, slide holes and carbs springs. And during this movement, needle profile still takes some part I guess.

[8541Hawk]

so my thinking is that ide open throttle no matter the rpm the slide is all the way up so how could needle tapper affect 5 to 7rpms or whatever if when you go full throttle the slide is in the same position throughout 1000 to 10000 rpms.

The bit you are not taking into account is that these are CV carbs. The slide is not connected to the throttle. The only thing you control with the throttle is the butterfly.
You can have the throttle wide open and the slide still be closed depending on operating conditions.

So when you go to full throttle the slide is not in the same position from 1000 to 10,000 RPM, in fact it is constantly moving.
One of the reasons tuning CV carbs cab be a bit tricky.