No fuel, tons of smoke, won't start

KatanaKid · Post by **KatanaKid** » Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:03 am

HI all,

I had mine sitting up for a while and needed to charge the battery. Ok that's easy. I then noticed I had no fuel but no evidence of leaking or smell, maybe it was empty when i parked. Fuelled it up cranked it and for the first time was hard to get going. Then she kicked over and idled a bit rough but ok then clouds of thick smoke bellowed from the exhaust, she died and won't go again.

Is it possible that the fuel may have leaked into the engine somehow causing thick smoke? I recently put a kit through the petcock.

PS last thing we need is clouds of smoke around here seeing half the country is on fire...

KatanaKid · Post by **KatanaKid** » Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:16 am

The smoke is white and the bike was running great when parked up

Commando77 · Post by **Commando77** » Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:12 pm

That's not good. If it was fuel and it got started I'd expect black smoke eventually clearing. White is oil, can be grey, depends how much its burning. Check the plugs and crank it with plugs out and rag over holes. Is it oily? Are the plugs oily/wet?
Only time I've ever seen proper white exhaust smoke was down to me blocking the case breather on a Norton... clouds of smoke as the oil got forced into the chambers via intake seals and maybe rings.... It was biblical but unlikely its yr problem. Head gasket? Doesn't sound likely if it was OK earlier...that wouldn't suddenly let go shouldn't think.
Hope you sort it...

Dickiebig · Post by **Dickiebig** » Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:42 pm

I do hope you haven't put diesel in it. Not that I would no anything about that

alanfjones1411 · Post by **alanfjones1411** » Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:51 pm

Only experience I've had with white smoke was a head gasket in a car I once had.But that wouldn't account for the empty fuel tank.At a guess I would say the petcock has let the fuel by.

tony.mon · Post by **tony.mon** » Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:26 pm

Is the oil level still visible?
If the fuel tank has drained into the engine via the carbs and leaked down into the cases via the rings then the oil level will be higher than it should be.

Also you run risk of hydraulic lock, which can damage the crankshaft.

One quick way of seeing what's going on is to drain the oil; if there's more than 4 litres and it smells of petrol, that is your problem.

popkat · Post by **popkat** » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:56 pm

Agree with Tony.. have a big bucket, once you've drained it all leave it for a few days with no oil filter, no plugs and the filler cap off, this will help the fuel to evaporate.
If it was mine then I'd fill it with fresh oil and a new filter, run it for a a couple of hundred miles and then do another oil and filter change and put some new plugs in.

Whilst leaving everything open for a couple of days strip your carbs and clean them, take a close look at the needle/float valve for any groves and clean the holders, also change your fuel tap diaphragm as the fuel got through somehow.

.

KatanaKid · Post by **KatanaKid** » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:20 am

Thanks gents. I had a quick look at the oil level and it seemed normal. I didn't check coolant level and might not get back to it for a couple of days. Speaking of diesel...the small jerry can I used to fill up had a tiny bit of diesel in it but I tipped it out, didn't rinse so there would have been minimal traces that I didn't think would matter...I put 5 litres of 98 into the tank.

I'll properly check my petcock when I get a chance but only recently been reco

KatanaKid · Post by **KatanaKid** » Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:58 am

Quick update...Was a small amount of oil on the ground near the sidestand when I got home, odd. I opened the oil filler cap and it smells like petrol in there and no coolant in the reservoir

Will investigate further asap.

KatanaKid · Post by **KatanaKid** » Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:20 am

It is a very strange feeling to see petrol gush out of the hole in your sump where old oil generally flows from. I filled a small jerry can and my oil pan. With all that unleaded in the engine. I am surprised she ran at all, if anything, this is a testament to the robust nature of our engine.

Has anyone seen or heard of this before? Or have an explanation as to how it has happened?

I am letting it sit for a while with the plugs out and cap off. I feel that she may be damaged internally...much like meself.

Dickiebig · Post by **Dickiebig** » Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:28 am

You will be surprised, give it time to evaporate the petrol and fresh oil and I bet she runs fine. I would be inclined to pull the tank and use a remote tank first, allowing you to sort the petcock.

Varastorm · Post by **Varastorm** » Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:45 am

KatanaKid wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:20 am It is a very strange feeling to see petrol gush out of the hole in your sump where old oil generally flows from. I filled a small jerry can and my oil pan. With all that unleaded in the engine. I am surprised she ran at all, if anything, this is a testament to the robust nature of our engine.

Has anyone seen or heard of this before? Or have an explanation as to how it has happened?

I am letting it sit for a while with the plugs out and cap off. I feel that she may be damaged internally...much like meself.

Good job, glad you sorted it out & hope you got away with it. From the sound of things you have

I've seen this happen years ago on an old 6 cylinder diesel & that damaged a con rod. It squeezed it into a perfect S, no other damage & when it was changed it ran as good as ever

Really impressive to see, should of kept it for the mantle piece

KatanaKid · Post by **KatanaKid** » Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:12 am

Thanks for the encouragement gents. I have a spare filter, just need to go tomorrow and pick up some oil. I only just built the petcock, but i will pull it down and check it. Maybe the petrol has cleaned some of the gunk from the engine, given it a freshen up so to speak. I'll wait and see and let you all know.

The perfect S shaped conrod sounds impressive.

tony.mon · Post by **tony.mon** » Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:18 am

All you need is a "G" and an "X" shaped rod to impress Suzuki owners.

Set the pet rock up with the tank on a stand and lines running to a bucket. You can create a vacuum easily with a brake bleeding syringe for test purposes.

You might need new plugs, too.

Keep an eye on oil consumption for the first few hundred miles as the fuel flowing past the rings may have rinsed some of the varnish away and they may not seal quite as well for a few miles.

Post by **sirch345** » Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:16 pm

KatanaKid wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:20 am It is a very strange feeling to see petrol gush out of the hole in your sump where old oil generally flows from. I filled a small jerry can and my oil pan. With all that unleaded in the engine. I am surprised she ran at all, if anything, this is a testament to the robust nature of our engine.

Has anyone seen or heard of this before? Or have an explanation as to how it has happened?

I am letting it sit for a while with the plugs out and cap off. I feel that she may be damaged internally...much like meself.

Tony M and Popkat seem to be on it.

I had this happen to me many many years ago on my Triton 650. It had a pre-unit engine meaning the engine and gearbox were separate. The engine ran a dry sump meaning only the oil that had circulated the engine ended up at the bottom of the crankcases (unlike a Firestorm) where it was then pumped back up through an oil strainer into a separate oil tank ready to be circulated around the engine again. So the crankcases were mostly empty. This meant when the petrol ended up filling up the crankcases most of the volume there would have been petrol. I was lucky in that I had a big bore breather pipe coming off the timing cover. When I went to kick the bike over on the kickstart (yes you heard that right, no electric start back then

) to start it the two big pistons of the vertical twin acted like a pump as they tried to go up and down forcing the petrol out of crankcases through the breather pipe that exited at the tail of the rear mudguard, the velocity of how it shot out was amazing. I think myself very lucky that the bike didn't fire up.

The reason this happened was due to me not turning off the fuel tap when I arrived at work. This is something you always did (when you didn't forget

) on old British bikes. One of the carb needle valves must had been stuck open allowing that carb to overflow. The petrol then over the whole day would have had time to seep past the piston rings and fill the sump.

So as Tony and Popkat have said you really need to be checking your fuel tap diaphragm, as that must have been open, plus check the needle valves in both carbs, make sure they are shutting off the fuel as the float is raised. I would also check that neither floats have a leak in them, if one has it will fill with petrol stopping it from shutting off the fuel once the carb is full.

It makes you think we should be checking the oil sight level glass (or plastic) before we attempt to start our bikes if we leave them laid up for a time.

I have never heard of this happening on a Firestorm/Superhawk, but then I suppose they are getting older.

Fingers crossed yours is going to be okay,

Chris.

VTR1000.ORG

No fuel, tons of smoke, won't start

No fuel, tons of smoke, won't start

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