Suspected failing regulator/rectifier or speedo sensor - fluctuating speedo

[yellabell]

Took the bike out last Saturday on a 180 mile round trip. Was faultless except for when I noticed the speedo acting up. It was fluctuating, noticeably at 40+ mph up to 90ish. At first I assumed it was the speed sensor, and it probably is so thats going to get changed, but after digging on the forum over the last few days, I'm starting to go for the reg/rec as a strong possibility. I wasnt aware the speedo fluctuations may be a sign of a degrading reg/rec... I've been reading the excellent thread from VTRdark explaining how to test the charging system.

Going through the tests step by step, I have a fully charged lithium battery showing correct voltage of 12.9v with ignition off. Ignition on, lights on, voltage drops very slowly as expected but only to about 12.4v

At the next stage with lights on and engine running at fast idle, I'm getting a steady 13.6v so the battery is getting a charge BUT when revved higher the lights do not brighten and the volts do not rise, infact they drop by a few decimal places to 13.4v. Also, quite worryingly the reg/rec gets quite warm, not really hot to touch but hot never the less. How hot is acceptable? I assume needing fins to dissipate heat I'd expect quite warm?

The bike has SH693-12 rectifier fitted to a standard 5 pin connector block. When I googled it it says from a CBR600/900 which according to later posts (in particular the list that AMCQ shared) in 'Beast's' thread is a satisfactory Honda replacement as it's one of the upgraded finned ones.



So... advice and thoughts on where to go from here. Do you think I'm on the right track suspecting a degrading unit? Should I go for a used R1/R6 reg/rec and hope it's good still, or buy a like for like replacement for the one that's fitted at the moment as they're readily available for about £20 new. Like i said, trying to source a speedo sensor anyway as that seems most likely. Cheers for the advice, Mick

[sirch345]

At the next stage with lights on and engine running at fast idle, I'm getting a steady 13.6v so the battery is getting a charge BUT when revved higher the lights do not brighten and the volts do not rise, infact they drop by a few decimal places to 13.4v. Also, quite worryingly the reg/rec gets quite warm, not really hot to touch but hot never the less. How hot is acceptable? I assume needing fins to dissipate heat I'd expect quite warm?

Cheers for the advice, Mick

I can't say there is very much wrong with those figures compared to my Storm. What's the voltage at the battery terminals on your multi-meter with the engine running and the lights turned off Mine shows 14.4 or 14.3 volts at idle speed.

Those rectifiers do run fairly hot, that's normal. If you want a rectifier that runs cooler and more reliable you need to invest in a MOSFET type rectifier.

Chris.

PS. Does the odometer fluctuate too or just the speedo. http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 3034&hilit

[MacV2]

Never known a reg rec to be itermitant.

The reg rec will either fail compleatly, the speedo just dies. Or overheats the battery on it's way out.

The £20 replacment ones are best avoided... GO Mossfet or wait at the side of the road to get home...

The speedo fluctuating could be a speedo sensor issue or just a loose or coroded wire on the back of the clocks...

It seems to be getting a signal but not fully.

I've had the speedo drop out twice. Once was just shite wireing to the R/R by a PO giving up the ghost. The second was a knackard battery.

[yellabell]

[/quote]

I can't say there is very much wrong with those figures compared to my Storm. What's the voltage at the battery terminals on your multi-meter with the engine running and the lights turned off Mine shows 14.4 or 14.3 volts at idle speed.

Those rectifiers do run fairly hot, that's normal. If you want a rectifier that runs cooler and more reliable you need to invest in a MOSFET type rectifier.

Chris.

PS. Does the odometer fluctuate too or just the speedo. http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 3034&hilit
[/quote]
Cheers Chris, just got home so been to test... at idle with no lights I'm getting 13.65v - volts don't rise if revved higher, infact they drop just a tad to 13.4v ...ish. The rev counter never fluctuated during the ride, just the speedo. Interestingly, the digital odometer recorded a total of 167 miles but my GPS recorded 182.5 miles. I'd put that down to a bit of wheel size calibration rather than the odo not recording correctly would you say? I certainly didn't spend 15 miles on the back wheel!

[yellabell]

Never known a reg rec to be itermitant.

The reg rec will either fail compleatly, the speedo just dies. Or overheats the battery on it's way out.

The £20 replacment ones are best avoided... GO Mossfet or wait at the side of the road to get home...

The speedo fluctuating could be a speedo sensor issue or just a loose or coroded wire on the back of the clocks...

It seems to be getting a signal but not fully.

I've had the speedo drop out twice. Once was just shite wireing to the R/R by a PO giving up the ghost. The second was a knackard battery.

Thanks Mac - I'm just gonna get a tester across the terminals to see if there's a voltage gain when I spin the wheel. If my sensor checks out ok then it's onto something else. If it fails I've sourced one at a breakers but it's 70 odd quid posted.
Agree about the cheap reg/rec, no doubt you'll know about the chap in the states on the owners forum selling Mosfet ones which are plug n play straight into the loom but he's asking circa 150.

[popkat]

I don’t think the readings are bad but Check the block connector for corrosion, that’s all ok get the soldering iron out splice into the earth wire that goes into the block connector and piggy back a wire to take the earth direct to the battery. This will eliminate any earthing issues.
Remember lithium batteries 14.9 maximum, they don’t like more, if too high then turn lights on, if you settle around 14.4-14.5 then always have lights on.
It’s worth getting a volt meter to fit to the bike to keep an eye on it, they don’t always read the same as your multimeter but once you know how different it is you’ll know where the too high voltage is.


.

[alanfjones1411]

Agree about the cheap reg/rec, no doubt you'll know about the chap in the states on the owners forum selling Mosfet ones which are plug n play straight into the loom but he's asking circa 150.
[/quote]


I bought one of those plug and play kits.Great bit of kit and easy to fit.

[sirch345]

I don’t think the readings are bad but Check the block connector for corrosion, that’s all ok get the soldering iron out splice into the earth wire that goes into the block connector and piggy back a wire to take the earth direct to the battery. This will eliminate any earthing issues.
Remember lithium batteries 14.9 maximum, they don’t like more, if too high then turn lights on, if you settle around 14.4-14.5 then always have lights on.
It’s worth getting a volt meter to fit to the bike to keep an eye on it, they don’t always read the same as your multimeter but once you know how different it is you’ll know where the too high voltage is.


.

I agree with that, I fitted a volt meter on mine

Chris.

[yellabell]

Had a few hours in the garage. Clocks off to check connections and for corrosion. Everything looked untouched, even a wispy cobweb in there. Typical fine surface rust on mild steel galv screw heads but nothing major. Took all 12 out one by one and cleaned them and the terminal loops up with a brass suede brush and re-torqued down. Non of the screws were loose before dismantling.





As per the manual guide, I checked each combination of terminals for continuity or voltage and everything was as it should be. Moved onto the connections under the seat and again, as per manual checked for voltage readings etc at the speedo sensor connector blocks.

The ONLY thing that seemed off was where the manual says check the PULSE VOLTAGE which should show a reading 0v to 5v. "Transmission in neutral, ignition on. Pulse voltage should be 0-5v between pink/green (+) & green/black (-) terminals while slowly turning the wheel." I had a continuous solid reading of 4.5V. What is pulse voltage, and what setting is it on the multimeter?? I had it set at up to 20V but unsure if the setting was correct to show pulse voltage. Should it be showing a sort of on/off 0-5-0-5-0-5-0-5... if it's a solid reading like I have could that be the problem?

I didn't have time to test ride, so with luck when I do get chance the speedo will work properly after the clean up.

Cheers

[8541Hawk]

The pulse generator tells the ignition when to fire. The fact that the bike runs fine shows it is working.

[MacV2]

Agree about the cheap reg/rec, no doubt you'll know about the chap in the states on the owners forum selling Mosfet ones which are plug n play straight into the loom but he's asking circa 150.

I bought one of those plug and play kits.Great bit of kit and easy to fit.
[/quote]

Eric Marques is the man... He still does the wireing kits, gave up selling with the R/R full kit due to suply issues with decent R/R's. Had some returns aparently which cost him Big $'s so gave up.

He is on here but your more likley to get hold of him through Facebook...

I use BMW R1000rr ones loads out there, cheaper if you happen to know someone in the US...

[fabiostar]

And if you stick to a standard shunt type rec unit. fit a plate a few mm thick between the rec and the frame, it helps with heat sink and keeps the rec unit a little cooler.

[jchesshyre]

The two times my speed sensor has failed it started with exactly these symptoms.

[yellabell]

Haven't had chance to road test yet so I'm still unsure if cleaning up the terminals at the rear of the clocks has cured the fluctuating speedo.

In the meantime though, I've a full speedo sensor coming which I can swap out or keep as a spare but also another on its way from JonnieIrish on the Facebook site. He's sent me one with the wires cropped for basically the cost of postage, very generous.



Hopefully I can get the electrical chaps at work to fit new wires (not just splice to the short ones remaining) and add a connector block. With luck I may end up with 2 good 'uns. Does anyone have a link to a suitable connector block or a part number, that will fit the loom connection end? Cheers

[yellabell]

Update:
All fixed by the looks of it. Wasn't the regulator, was the speedo sensor after all. After cleaning the terminals behind the clocks I'd taken it out for a ride. Still the same. Swapped the regulator for a brand new one from Steve97, still the same. Put my original regulator back on then swapped the speedo sensor for another, again from Steve97. Bingo..! Cured and speedo working properly again. Cheers Steve. I've still got another 2 sensors, the one that I got from JonnieIrish that needs rewiring still, and another from an ebay purchase... think I'll be ok for a while. Cheers for the advice everyone.