Starter motor problems.

[Joonas]

Thanks for the answers, appreciate the help

[shammi]

So we had this issue with the transfer gears on our storm. The slipping of the 2 gears got really bad and the bike would not start at all. We welded the gears in our case and now the bike starts first round. We made a video guide when we fixed it. Had to break the video in to 2 parts as it took some time.

Part 1 shows how we removed everything up to the starter sprag clutch and how we reached to the 2 gears.
Part 2 shows how we took out the 2 gears, the process of welding them together and finally how we put everything back on and started the bike.

I have attached the YouTube links below for anyone who's interested. Hopefully someone finds it useful. Cheers

Part 1



Part 2

[acrmnsm]

Oh dear, I have the dreaded screech I think>


Who has a good set of transfer gears they want to sell me?

[acrmnsm]

Ok, I have started dismantling the Storm for this job. Fingers crossed I don't make a hash of it..

[acrmnsm]

Most of the way through my transfer gear replacement. Just got to order a new generator cover gasket.

1) I ordered this set of sealey star nut sockets FFX Star nut sockets, they have a huge ball cut radius inside and would not touch the star, so we ground it flat and all was good.

2) The timing marks pre check before removing the tensioner were a bit concerning, on the F-EX mark it was not exactly in line with the top of the cylinder head, I used a ruler etc, about 1.5mm above, but it is 1/3rd of a tooth so if I adjusted it by 1 tooth it would have been much further out. Is there something wrong here? It ran fine. I figured the marks on the flywheel are harder to align so maybe I was out, but I did 3 checks ie rotated all the way round again to align again, and I found that if I pushed the tiniest bit to get better alignment then it whipped past the mark. Despite plugs being out there was still some compression resistance.

3) I got hold of a couple of sets of 2nd hand transfer gears and wanted to know if we could test them.
The failed one we removed from the bike could have been rotated by a kitten.

The first of the 2nd hand ones we tested could not be rotated by the big man at all. Note after we tested the first one there was not a mark on the gears from the vice or the pliers, very very hard. So I was happy to test the next set and then use them on the bike, no damage or marks at all.

[acrmnsm]

By the way David Silver have the transfer gear, 1 in stock, at £125 https://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/VTR ... rt_396539/
Compared with CMSNL who have it a 210 euros posted - approx £180 https://www.cmsnl.com/products/gear-com ... 100mbb000/

Don't ask me how I know..

[sirch345]

Most of the way through my transfer gear replacement. Just got to order a new generator cover gasket.

1) I ordered this set of sealey star nut sockets FFX Star nut sockets, they have a huge ball cut radius inside and would not touch the star, so we ground it flat and all was good.

2) The timing marks pre check before removing the tensioner were a bit concerning, on the F-EX mark it was not exactly in line with the top of the cylinder head, I used a ruler etc, about 1.5mm above, but it is 1/3rd of a tooth so if I adjusted it by 1 tooth it would have been much further out. Is there something wrong here? It ran fine. I figured the marks on the flywheel are harder to align so maybe I was out, but I did 3 checks ie rotated all the way round again to align again, and I found that if I pushed the tiniest bit to get better alignment then it whipped past the mark. Despite plugs being out there was still some compression resistance.

3) I got hold of a couple of sets of 2nd hand transfer gears and wanted to know if we could test them.
The failed one we removed from the bike could have been rotated by a kitten.

The first of the 2nd hand ones we tested could not be rotated by the big man at all. Note after we tested the first one there was not a mark on the gears from the vice or the pliers, very very hard. So I was happy to test the next set and then use them on the bike, no damage or marks at all.

It sounds like you are getting there, well done

It's always helpful to hear how things went, and even better with added video's. Many thanks for taking the time to do that
The resistance you experienced when tuning the engine over will be the valve springs being compressed as the valves are being opened on the other cylinder you're not working on.

You were spot on regarding the valve timing marks being out slightly, that is not enough to be worrying about and is quite common, but definitely nothing to be concerned about.

Chris.

[acrmnsm]

Cheers, all running nicely now.

[acrmnsm]

I wanted to update the forum on something I discovered this week about gear manufacture.
I have sent my failed transfer gear and the other good 2nd hand one to one of my manufacturers that also have a specialist gear manufacturing section (I'm a metallurgist working in engineering design, I actually mostly do stress analysis and some project management, we use contract machining services to make components for our products, although we have never procured gears before, but I knew these guys did gears).
I asked them to look at manufacturing or repairing these and I asked about the reason why the gear is seemingly on a shaft that might allow movement.
It turns out that the assumptions made about the need to rotate are likely incorrect. No disrespect to @tony.mon and the others involved with educating us all through this repair.
It is very common with reduction gears that one is pressed on to a shaft with the other, via an interference fit. The reason is that it is actually impossible to cut the smaller gear when it is so close the larger gear, the gear cutters would not be able to clear the small gear without cutting in to the larger gear.
The manufacturer has said that it is simpler for them to bore out the gear and shim it with a bush and press it back on to the shaft (after it has been cleaned up and gauged) rather than manufacture a whole new gear set, especially as there is no discernable wear on the gear teeth. They already do this type of repair on other reduction gear assemblies with the same problem.
They also said that obviously pinning or welding them would be fine as there is likely no reason to "allow them to rotate", as the reason they are on a common shaft is purely for manufacturing reasons.

It actually seems bloody obvious now.

I am in the process of working out a pricing package, and it seems they only really want to do them in batches.
So does anyone have any buggered transfer gears so we can build a batch of 10 or more?

[tony.mon]

That makes sense, thanks for the research.
Unfortunately I've binned all of the knackered ones!

[sirch345]

I wanted to update the forum on something I discovered this week about gear manufacture.
I have sent my failed transfer gear and the other good 2nd hand one to one of my manufacturers that also have a specialist gear manufacturing section (I'm a metallurgist working in engineering design, I actually mostly do stress analysis and some project management, we use contract machining services to make components for our products, although we have never procured gears before, but I knew these guys did gears).
I asked them to look at manufacturing or repairing these and I asked about the reason why the gear is seemingly on a shaft that might allow movement.
It turns out that the assumptions made about the need to rotate are likely incorrect. No disrespect to @tony.mon and the others involved with educating us all through this repair.
It is very common with reduction gears that one is pressed on to a shaft with the other, via an interference fit. The reason is that it is actually impossible to cut the smaller gear when it is so close the larger gear, the gear cutters would not be able to clear the small gear without cutting in to the larger gear.
The manufacturer has said that it is simpler for them to bore out the gear and shim it with a bush and press it back on to the shaft (after it has been cleaned up and gauged) rather than manufacture a whole new gear set, especially as there is no discernable wear on the gear teeth. They already do this type of repair on other reduction gear assemblies with the same problem.
They also said that obviously pinning or welding them would be fine as there is likely no reason to "allow them to rotate", as the reason they are on a common shaft is purely for manufacturing reasons.

It actually seems bloody obvious now.

I am in the process of working out a pricing package, and it seems they only really want to do them in batches.
So does anyone have any buggered transfer gears so we can build a batch of 10 or more?

That is interesting, good on you for taking the challenge to the right people.
Unfortunately I don't have any worn-out transfer gears either.

Seeing what your profession is, I don't suppose you would like another challenge

There is a slim chance you may have read about cam chain tensioner springs breaking
What would be fantastic to know for sure is, what makes the spring break
I can send you a broken CCT spring if you're interested

Chris.

[acrmnsm]

DM me for address, I can definitely have a look. That picture already looks interesting..

[sirch345]

DM me for address, I can definitely have a look. That picture already looks interesting..

I will have a look tomorrow just to make sure I can lay my hands on that spring

Chris.