Hi all. I recently aquired (for very cheap) a very tidy 2002 VTR1000 with a suspected front CCT failure. 40k (km) on the clock. Decided to take on the project and lucky me, ended up being 2 slightly bent exhaust valves with no further damage. Purchased new exhaust valves, new stock CCT, new head gasket, did the stopper mod on both CCT's, reshimmed the valves (2 intakes were slightly tight), fresh oil and coolant, front tyre and chain and sprockets.
Other relevant factors - Stock air filter, stock jetting, Staintune high pipes, fuel screws set, carbs balanced, new plugs, TPS holes widened so I could get it to 500ohms (was 850 untouched).
The bike now runs and handles like a dream, but there's one thing niggling at me which is a harsh vibration that kicks in right on 4krpm though to about 5krpm only when under mid to hard acceleration. I've read as many threads here as I can on tuning and vibration and it seems that either:
- The vibration is something these bikes just do.
- The vibration is tuning issue, possibly imbalance between the fuelling on the front and rear carbs.
The thing is, it's so distinct when it kicks in. If you go 50%+ throttle at 3krpm it pulls so smooth and clean until right on 4krpm when the buzzing intensifies significantly but then tends to fade off beyond 5krpm when the whole bike is a bit more raucous so possibly it's just less noticable. But if you drop back and throttle and hold the revs anywhere between 4k to 5k it's smooth as silk again... until you crack the throttle and it's instant vibes like an on/off switch.
Things I've tried:
- Shim the rear needle +0.5mm and the front +0.3mm (on top of the existing 0.5mm washers both had when I opened the carbs). This is what I started with. No effect.
- On top of the above, block one hole in the front slide. No effect.
- Return the front slide holes back to 2 and leave the needles stock with the existing 0.5mm shims. No affect.
- Shim the rear needle +0.5mm and leave the front needle stock. This seemed to make the vibes worse and actually commence a little earlier, so the transition was less noticable, but the bike felt weaker. I expect too much differential between the front and rear slides.
My "feel" is that due to where and when the vibes commence, it's related to the moment the carbs get on the needles. Thus why anything less than 50% throttle in this rpm range remains smooth. But so far trying to tweak the balance between the two hasn't net any positive results.
Any advice on where to go from here? Am I chasing an issue that is potentially not related to the carbs at all? Other than the above the tune seems spot on (aside from the last option I tried with stock 0.5mm needle front and 0.5mm + 0.5mm needle rear). Bike starts effortlessly, has a smooth idle, no carb pops (tps reset and balance got rid of those), no surging on cruise.
I've ordered 48 mains already so will pop them in when they arrive but don't expect that to have any impact on the above. Other than that the only other ideas I have to try out are:
- Go harder on the slides. Maybe +0.5mm front and rear, or +0.5mm front +0.8mm rear.
- See if backing off the TPS helps, or determine whether it changes anything at all.
- Check I haven't overtightened the cams chains with the stopper mod. I performed it per the guide and felt I was even a little more conservative with making sure the stopper wasn't too long, though I did end up with 11mm on the rear (existing stock CCT) and only 8mm on the front (brand new stock CCT). I might recheck the rear, maybe it could use a slight reduction to give a little more freeplay.
Thanks for your time. I like to create posts like this not only to get advice, but to help others in the future. Forums have such a wealth of knowledge beyond what you can get in Facebook groups and this one in particular is what got the VTR1000 back on the road.
Revived VTR - Trying to sort out 4k vibration
Re: Revived VTR - Trying to sort out 4k vibration
Where are you feeling the vibration? Through the bars, the seat or generally? And is the vibration in all gears, or just top?
Are the foot pegs still attached to the link pipe section of the cans?
Are the clipons standard, and do you still have the anti vibration inserts?
Have you tried adjusting the chain?
Lastly, have you tried slackening off all the frame to engine mounts except the long one, then retorquing them?
Are the foot pegs still attached to the link pipe section of the cans?
Are the clipons standard, and do you still have the anti vibration inserts?
Have you tried adjusting the chain?
Lastly, have you tried slackening off all the frame to engine mounts except the long one, then retorquing them?
It's not falling off, it's an upgrade opportunity.
Re: Revived VTR - Trying to sort out 4k vibration
mini hijack
Que??? I think my exhaust must be after market as the pipes are defo not connected to the footrests. My bike also vibrates, but I thought it was a feature..Are the foot pegs still attached to the link pipe section of the cans?
1997 Red Storm, 3 others in bits...
"Devonshire born and Devonshire bred, strong in the arm and thick in the 'ead."
"Devonshire born and Devonshire bred, strong in the arm and thick in the 'ead."
Re: Revived VTR - Trying to sort out 4k vibration
The original (heavy) cans have triangular plates on the "link pipes" section of the one piece can. This attaches behind each footrest on rubber mountings and helps to damp vibration through the footpegs.
With lighter, aftermarket exhausts there's no need as the vibration has less of an effect. But if your clamps are too close to the inlet end then the unsupported tail end section can produce vibration.
One other point to note is that, often, people try to use the engine at low revs and it's lumpy that way. Mostly when people are used to an il4 and try to open the throttle hard at less than 3k.
Sometimes its the drive chain being adjusted wrongly.
Adjust the free play to 20mm with a person the same weight as you sitting on the bike.
If you set it with no static load it's often too slack with the rider on board.
With lighter, aftermarket exhausts there's no need as the vibration has less of an effect. But if your clamps are too close to the inlet end then the unsupported tail end section can produce vibration.
One other point to note is that, often, people try to use the engine at low revs and it's lumpy that way. Mostly when people are used to an il4 and try to open the throttle hard at less than 3k.
Sometimes its the drive chain being adjusted wrongly.
Adjust the free play to 20mm with a person the same weight as you sitting on the bike.
If you set it with no static load it's often too slack with the rider on board.
It's not falling off, it's an upgrade opportunity.
Re: Revived VTR - Trying to sort out 4k vibration
Where are you feeling the vibration? Through the bars, the seat or generally? And is the vibration in all gears, or just top?
Vibes are felt across the whole bike. Feels like the engine transmitting it across the chassis. All gears, right on about 4200rpm when throttle is above about 50%. Perfectly smooth on softer acceleration and cruising.
Are the foot pegs still attached to the link pipe section of the cans?
I have Staintune high pipes which are mounted to the footpegs with rubber inserts.
Are the clipons standard, and do you still have the anti vibration inserts?
It had some taller Helibars on it, though I swapped back to stock over the weekend. Both setups with the standard bar inserts and heavy bar ends. No difference when I changed the bars.
Have you tried adjusting the chain?
Yep. It vibrated with the old chain and sprockets which were pretty nasty. I put on new chain and sprockets full expecting that was the issue, but no change whatsoever. Have tried both the looser and tighter end of the specs.
Lastly, have you tried slackening off all the frame to engine mounts except the long one, then retorquing them?
This is the one thing I haven't tried. I tried tigtening the bolts to check if any were loose, but they wouldn't budge. I could try loosening them and then retorquing them if that might have a chance.
I did some more trials over the weekend and have pulled the carbs several times now to tweak the needle settings. Have also got it perfectly sync'd at idle, but also trialled syncing the carbs for 4k. No difference. After these tests I expect now that it's nothing to do with the carbs or the tune. I have the fueling running so well now. Power wheelies off the line with ease, is very easy to manage in stop-start traffic, no surging or random popping, pulls strong and hard to redline without ever skipping a beat. It's just the buzz/vibration that kicks in right after 4k that's slightly annoying but I think that I might just have to accept that it's a characteristic of the bike I'll get over it. It's less noticable/obvious if I intentionally loosen my grip on the bars so I've got some new grips coming.
Other than this the bike is a ripper, I think it may have just been a case of expectation vs reality. The only other V-twins I've owned are the VTR250 and SV650 which smooth but far lower capacity. I currently own an XSR700 (Yamaha CP2 engine) which is a counter balanced parallel twin with a 270 firing order. Typical offset twin thump but no buzz. I also own a 2002 Speed Triple and that bike is as smooth as silk from tickover to redline. It was only that the VTR1000 was quite smooth otherwise that I thought something might be out of order and causing the intensification of vibration right on a specific RPM when under load.
Vibes are felt across the whole bike. Feels like the engine transmitting it across the chassis. All gears, right on about 4200rpm when throttle is above about 50%. Perfectly smooth on softer acceleration and cruising.
Are the foot pegs still attached to the link pipe section of the cans?
I have Staintune high pipes which are mounted to the footpegs with rubber inserts.
Are the clipons standard, and do you still have the anti vibration inserts?
It had some taller Helibars on it, though I swapped back to stock over the weekend. Both setups with the standard bar inserts and heavy bar ends. No difference when I changed the bars.
Have you tried adjusting the chain?
Yep. It vibrated with the old chain and sprockets which were pretty nasty. I put on new chain and sprockets full expecting that was the issue, but no change whatsoever. Have tried both the looser and tighter end of the specs.
Lastly, have you tried slackening off all the frame to engine mounts except the long one, then retorquing them?
This is the one thing I haven't tried. I tried tigtening the bolts to check if any were loose, but they wouldn't budge. I could try loosening them and then retorquing them if that might have a chance.
I did some more trials over the weekend and have pulled the carbs several times now to tweak the needle settings. Have also got it perfectly sync'd at idle, but also trialled syncing the carbs for 4k. No difference. After these tests I expect now that it's nothing to do with the carbs or the tune. I have the fueling running so well now. Power wheelies off the line with ease, is very easy to manage in stop-start traffic, no surging or random popping, pulls strong and hard to redline without ever skipping a beat. It's just the buzz/vibration that kicks in right after 4k that's slightly annoying but I think that I might just have to accept that it's a characteristic of the bike I'll get over it. It's less noticable/obvious if I intentionally loosen my grip on the bars so I've got some new grips coming.
Other than this the bike is a ripper, I think it may have just been a case of expectation vs reality. The only other V-twins I've owned are the VTR250 and SV650 which smooth but far lower capacity. I currently own an XSR700 (Yamaha CP2 engine) which is a counter balanced parallel twin with a 270 firing order. Typical offset twin thump but no buzz. I also own a 2002 Speed Triple and that bike is as smooth as silk from tickover to redline. It was only that the VTR1000 was quite smooth otherwise that I thought something might be out of order and causing the intensification of vibration right on a specific RPM when under load.
Re: Revived VTR - Trying to sort out 4k vibration
My VTR1000 is quite happy to go WOT at 2,000rpm and pulls cleanly and smoothly from there all the way to redline. 3k to 4k is especially smooth but then it hits 4,200 and the vibes come on hard.tony.mon wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2024 7:05 pm One other point to note is that, often, people try to use the engine at low revs and it's lumpy that way. Mostly when people are used to an il4 and try to open the throttle hard at less than 3k.
Sometimes its the drive chain being adjusted wrongly.
Adjust the free play to 20mm with a person the same weight as you sitting on the bike.
If you set it with no static load it's often too slack with the rider on board.
Interesting about the chain slack. Most bikes I've found that once they're loaded the chain tightens, not loosens. The geometry of the VTR must be a different. I'll try a little tighter.
Re: Revived VTR - Trying to sort out 4k vibration
Have you compared to another Storm? Find a local owner and swap bikes for a comparison.
It's not falling off, it's an upgrade opportunity.
Re: Revived VTR - Trying to sort out 4k vibration
That sounds like a very good suggestion Tony
I can only think of 2 thinks right now, and one is a really long shot:
(1) Do you still have the original OEM front foot rest's fitted as they have a rubber insulator on top where your feet sit
(2) No laughing at this one anybody
but could a previous owner have fitted a lightened flywheel that was really badly turned on a lathe so out of balance 
Scrap number (2)
This I feel could be more important:
Seeing as you had a front CCT failure which bent valves, it might be worth doing a compression test on both cylinders,
Chris.
Re: Revived VTR - Trying to sort out 4k vibration
Gave this one a proper good go today. Fashioned up 4-pronged socket and loosened all engine mounting bolts then retorqued all six positions (front, middle, rear - left and right) per the specific guide in the manual and as mentioned in a post in here. No change. Thinking at this stage I'll just put it down to the nature of the bike and some kind of harmonic vibration that only occurs at these rpm when under load.
I'll do a compression test later in the week just out of interest once a few bits and pieces arrive and I have the tank off again. Anyway thanks all for the suggestions. If in my tinkering I end up managing to solve it I'll be sure to report back.
Re: Revived VTR - Trying to sort out 4k vibration
The plot thickens!
Ran the compression test on a warm engine about an hour after getting home from a ride. Ended up pulling 170psi on the front (the one I just fixed) but only 145psi on the rear. I checked multiple times, swapping back between the two each time and got identical results. Tried the teaspoon of oil down the spark plug trick and that got it up to about 148psi, so I'm assuming it's not rings and I'm probably losing compression through the valves.
I don't have a proper leakdown tester with two gauges, but I can hook up 100psi to my compression tester lead so can try putting pressure down into the cylinder at TDC and see if I can hear any obvious leaks through the top end. Assuming this means my options are either:
- Leave it as is, since it seems to run well apart from the odd vibration.
- Remove the head and investigate.
Sounds like 145psi isn't bad, but it's different enough from 170psi to have a good chance at being the cause of vibration right?
Happy to take on any other suggestions.
Ran the compression test on a warm engine about an hour after getting home from a ride. Ended up pulling 170psi on the front (the one I just fixed) but only 145psi on the rear. I checked multiple times, swapping back between the two each time and got identical results. Tried the teaspoon of oil down the spark plug trick and that got it up to about 148psi, so I'm assuming it's not rings and I'm probably losing compression through the valves.
I don't have a proper leakdown tester with two gauges, but I can hook up 100psi to my compression tester lead so can try putting pressure down into the cylinder at TDC and see if I can hear any obvious leaks through the top end. Assuming this means my options are either:
- Leave it as is, since it seems to run well apart from the odd vibration.
- Remove the head and investigate.
Sounds like 145psi isn't bad, but it's different enough from 170psi to have a good chance at being the cause of vibration right?
Happy to take on any other suggestions.
Re: Revived VTR - Trying to sort out 4k vibration
The good news is that it's easy to pull the rear head off with the lump in the frame. All it'll cost you is a head gasket. Check you don't have a negative valve clearance first, though.
Could be guides, could be worn valve seals, might be coked up, if not it'll be rings.
Probably worth doing, if you're not fed up with the damned thing at present.
Could be guides, could be worn valve seals, might be coked up, if not it'll be rings.
Probably worth doing, if you're not fed up with the damned thing at present.
It's not falling off, it's an upgrade opportunity.
Re: Revived VTR - Trying to sort out 4k vibration
This will be of no help but.
2 years ago mine was running like a pig in the mid range, i mean really bad
in around 4 to 5k it was stuttering and missing , i pulled my hair out whats left of it, to the point i had the bike broken down to the last nut and bolt,,, it turned out the engine was getting to much air which strangly can make VTR carbs run run rich but it was only happening at those revs...
but to liken it to what you are feeling when it was in the 4/5k range it vibrated like a jack hammer, to the point the engine felt like it was gona jup outa the frame
it wasnt until i done some plug chops at the effected revs that i caught on the engine was ok below and above the midrange but filthy rich just when the engine was trying to make a bid for freedom.
2 years ago mine was running like a pig in the mid range, i mean really bad
in around 4 to 5k it was stuttering and missing , i pulled my hair out whats left of it, to the point i had the bike broken down to the last nut and bolt,,, it turned out the engine was getting to much air which strangly can make VTR carbs run run rich but it was only happening at those revs... but to liken it to what you are feeling when it was in the 4/5k range it vibrated like a jack hammer, to the point the engine felt like it was gona jup outa the frame
it wasnt until i done some plug chops at the effected revs that i caught on the engine was ok below and above the midrange but filthy rich just when the engine was trying to make a bid for freedom.
the older i get,the faster i was 
Re: Revived VTR - Trying to sort out 4k vibration
Now that is interesting, although not what I was expecting.Cedardrew wrote: ↑Wed Sep 04, 2024 10:29 am The plot thickens!
Ran the compression test on a warm engine about an hour after getting home from a ride. Ended up pulling 170psi on the front (the one I just fixed) but only 145psi on the rear. I checked multiple times, swapping back between the two each time and got identical results. Tried the teaspoon of oil down the spark plug trick and that got it up to about 148psi, so I'm assuming it's not rings and I'm probably losing compression through the valves.
I don't have a proper leakdown tester with two gauges, but I can hook up 100psi to my compression tester lead so can try putting pressure down into the cylinder at TDC and see if I can hear any obvious leaks through the top end. Assuming this means my options are either:
- Leave it as is, since it seems to run well apart from the odd vibration.
- Remove the head and investigate.
Sounds like 145psi isn't bad, but it's different enough from 170psi to have a good chance at being the cause of vibration right?
Happy to take on any other suggestions.
Worth getting to the bottom of it with that amount of difference between the two psi figures for front and rear cylinders.
As Tony suggest, check the valve clearances for the rear cylinder, first,
Chris.
Re: Revived VTR - Trying to sort out 4k vibration
Cheers for the tips and following along.
Valve clearances were all checked and adjusted (front and rear) when I reset the timing. Rear and front pot needed one intake shimmed each but that was it. I'll recheck the rear as soon as I pop the cover off just to be sure though I was pretty thorough with it first time around.
Think I'll just pick up another head gasket, pop the rear head off (was hoping it would be easier) and give the valves an inspection and a bit of clean up. When I did the front I cleaned up the area a little bit but didn't go too hard on it. I did lap in the new exhausts valves (didn't touch the intakes) so maybe the rear just needs the same treatment. 145psi doesn't sound too bad overall, but things are a bit out of whack for one reason or another.
On a side note, when I popped the old plugs out the front was a lot darker, getting towards dark brown whereas the rear was a medium tan. This is with stock jetting and one 0.5m stock shim under each needle (that's how mine came). So maybe the front is reading a little higher than it should due to carbon build up. If I can get the rear up to 155psi though I'd be happy and I think regardless of whether it cures the vibes, this is the last thing I'm going to try before accepting it for what it is.
Honestly it's not "that" bad, but it's enough to bug me and give me the impression that it wouldn't have been like this from factory.
Valve clearances were all checked and adjusted (front and rear) when I reset the timing. Rear and front pot needed one intake shimmed each but that was it. I'll recheck the rear as soon as I pop the cover off just to be sure though I was pretty thorough with it first time around.
Think I'll just pick up another head gasket, pop the rear head off (was hoping it would be easier) and give the valves an inspection and a bit of clean up. When I did the front I cleaned up the area a little bit but didn't go too hard on it. I did lap in the new exhausts valves (didn't touch the intakes) so maybe the rear just needs the same treatment. 145psi doesn't sound too bad overall, but things are a bit out of whack for one reason or another.
On a side note, when I popped the old plugs out the front was a lot darker, getting towards dark brown whereas the rear was a medium tan. This is with stock jetting and one 0.5m stock shim under each needle (that's how mine came). So maybe the front is reading a little higher than it should due to carbon build up. If I can get the rear up to 155psi though I'd be happy and I think regardless of whether it cures the vibes, this is the last thing I'm going to try before accepting it for what it is.
Honestly it's not "that" bad, but it's enough to bug me and give me the impression that it wouldn't have been like this from factory.
Re: Revived VTR - Trying to sort out 4k vibration
Definitely not fed up at all
I bought the bike as a project and to up my skillset which it has done. This is just another challenge. I have two other fully working bikes (XSR700 converted into a dirt/adventure bike and a custom built 2002 Speed Triple 955i) so this can be off the road as long as I need it to be. Working on bikes is my hobby and keeps me sane, it's when I don't have anything to work on that I start getting fed up