Kitchens!!! (For all the Joiners out there)

[tattie]

I am afraid I have to have a rant tonight.


I have been fitting / manufacturing kitchens, amongst other things in one way or another for about 28 years. The hinges, catches, latches, runners and fittings have come on leaps and bounds in that time but unfortunately the people who desire, design, pick and deliver them has not.

Last week we went to fit one "supplied by client" They had all the units assembled and the front top rail on every one was fitted upside down ,
Plan was provided and all units numbered for the " Joiner " All units fitted. Joiner says to client "it is unusual to see a unit provided for the built in oven as they usually come with metal runners that screw to each cabinet either side of the oven, next morning the tops were craned in to position (4 meter jobs) scribed to bumpy wall, cutouts for sink and hob done and sealed, duly mitred and bolted up tight with a neat joint.
Wall units were fitted (as per plan) "ah ha " 3 decor end panels missing (there's a surprise), corner posts fitted and then the extractor s/steel with the corners that catch you on the side of the head .
Client calls in and says "that is not the extractor we wanted you will need to take it down till we get it changed." I say "well I need to know how far the new one will come down so I can start on the splashbacks".
Next morning just getting started and client calls in "can we shift the sink" and "could you move this wall unit over this way so it looks better" and would you mind moving the fridge freezer and this unit over 50mm that way.
Joiner,after 3 or 4 sharp intakes of breath "yes no bother"
FFS unbolt the mitred joints, recut, scribe, re-miter the joint, cut out another sink hole and seal, remove wall cupboards, fridge freezer out, shift unit and refit the whole bloody lot,
That done, doors, handles, drawers and soft close mechanisims were next, the handles were great big stainless things with 250mm hole centres with about 2mm cover on the fixing bolts, which were universal, ie cut them to the right size yourself, this entailed making templates for boring the doors/ drawers as they did not have the correct centres marked on them, then some of the door soft close mechanisms were not compatible with the hinges.
I could go on and on,
Maybe I am just getting too long in the tooth, but I said the last time I did a kitchen that it would be the last so I think it is time to give the worktop jig to some one I really like

I feel a lot better for that now

Cheers

A.M.

ps, the unit for the oven had to be removed because it had the metal runners I had mentioned earlier, also the plumber was invisible (which is apparently normal ) and the joiner had to fit the sink.

"Joiner" stands for The first man on the job and the last man off the job and the person who gets all the grief.

[andyh]

I know EXACTLY how you feel tattie, being in the trade myself. It really makes you wonder sometimes don't it

P.S. when they ask for stuff to be altered from the original plan just utter the words " thats extra ". It makes it a lot easier then

[Seven Of Nine Firestorm]

Thats the problem when people think its only a 5 min job to move things around it isn't, as Andy said just say would be extra £££'s.
Fitted a few kitchens myself years ago only 3, and built 1 porch and 1 conservertery (spelling). Have to admit working on, everything needed adjustment and or properally sizing, seems like manufactures quality control goes out of the window when they sell products to clients these days.

[Beamish]

My customer is the pilot.

He knows best and is all powerful, his quick flick through the users manual enables the flyboy to understand and fault diagnose problems on the same system that you took a six week course and 20 yrs experience to learn.
Best off all is when he comes back from a sortie whingeing about **** system and you smugly inform him that it was inhibited six months ago or he had it in O-F-F mode.

[sirch345]

I can fully appreciate how you felt Tattie
Been there and got the T shirt many times

I can relate to most of those situations and probably more, after being in the building trade for 30yrs myself. I was even in a partnership at one point where we supplied and fitted made to measure kitchens.

I think any business where you're dealing with the general public can at times be a right pain in the butt. But then again there are times when you work for people who really appreciate you.

The bit about missing items, that seems to be the norm in kitchen fitting in my experience

Have you ever used a hinge called the 'Blum clip' I think that's how it's spelt. A marvellous invention IMO

I agree with what others have said, any changes will cost extra, with in reason

Chris.

[fishface]

that sounds about right mate your like every other joiner i know a proper moaning b8stard ..
you should be like us bricklayers and just get on with it or tell them to f*ck off

[andyh]

that sounds about right mate your like every other joiner i know a proper moaning b8stard ..
you should be like us bricklayers and just get on with it or tell them to f*ck off

Bricklayers Carpenters with their brains blown out

[tattie]

A good response was what I needed.
The customers I have, 50+ have been with me for between 12-25 years, they know me well and keep coming back (The old motto "do a good job and you will get back" applies). The problem arises from the majority of jobs being on a time and materials basis because they know me and trust me not to swing the lead or spin the job out. They score because they know I am busy and need to get on to my next job as soon as possible. A small percentage of my works are priced and they are what you make money on, the hourly rate just makes a wage.

Seven of nine, quality controll just do'nt exist. A local supplier of assembled kitchen units (was part of a major furniture retailer) when queried about the variation in the sizes of their base units ( as much as 3mm, I was told by the manager that it was "Just one of those things"

Timbo, I thought youwere talking about the "Gers" ie RFC. A good idea and one I have used on bigger jobs when delays and mind changing can cost a lot of money.

Beamish, The guy in the suppliers finds it easy to say to the client "aye the joiner can shift/alter that no problem" the next time he says that he can bloody well do it himself.

Sirc, Made to measure is the way to go, that way "everything fits" and the Blum clip hinge is very good.
Interestingly the clip hinges supplied with this kitchen were LAMA clip hinges made in Slovenia.

Fishface, I have never told any of my customers to f*ck off, hence the full order books, mind you have been close to it

Andy, what can I say other than you bet me to it. Mind you do you know why joiners put fire stops round timber frame buildings?

You would think laying blocks would be easy but the fire stops are really there because brickies dont have a clue what plumb level and straight mean

Cheers

A.M.

[sirch345]

Sirc, Made to measure is the way to go, that way "everything fits" and the Blum clip hinge is very good.
Interestingly the clip hinges supplied with this kitchen were LAMA clip hinges made in Slovenia.

Cheers

A.M.

I agree, made to measure is the way to go. The good thing about our business was that I did the surveying and fitting, so any mistake in the measuring was down to me. Down here at the time no one else could supply genuine made to measure kitchens. There's plenty doing it now.

I assume the LAMA clip hinge is very similar to the Blum clip?

Chris.

[Pete.L]

It's quite simple Mike.
Years ago in olden times there were lots of little Blums running all around the coastal area's and farmers wives used to catch them and hang them on their kitchen cabinets for luck. Now these pesky little critters were slippery little buggers and kept escaping and making a mess all over the house. One clever little farmer developed a way of clipping them to a cupboard so they couldn't escape and being a wise little farmer he patten his idea and it became the standard clip to use.
Then the Yuppies moved in. Blums were too common for them so in an attempt to be posh they decided Lama's were much more kosher and a new clip had to be developed.

See easy isn't it
Pete.l

[sirch345]

I assume the LAMA clip hinge is very similar to the Blum clip?

Chris.

Uhm, lost now

Mike,
The Blum clip hinge allows you to remove kitchen cupboard doors without altering the adjustments unlike the conventional type
So what that means is, you can remove a cupboard door and refit it in exactly the same position without even lifting a screwdriver

Chris.

Pete,
Just keep taking the tablets

[sirch345]

I imagine there are many manufactures now producing them, but 'Blum Clip' were the first ones I came across. They are a very good invention IMHO

Chris.

[Pete.L]

Chris said

Chris.

Pete,
Just keep taking the tablets

It's nice in my world. Everything is all soft and fuzzy

Pete.l

[sirch345]

Chris said

Chris.

Pete,
Just keep taking the tablets

It's nice in my world. Everything is all soft and fuzzy

Pete.l

Chris.

[Dont_tell_him_Pike]

Hi Chaps,
Just registered & my first post.

I've been supplying kitchens & bathrooms for years.

It's exactly as it is in the first post.

Each time i'm halfway through fitting a kitchen, i always say never again.

Because i get the jobs from word of mouth it's hard to be strict with them.

Only once have i ever had to remove & alter a worktop, but most kitchens i've had to replace the taps they bought because of wrong pressure, dont look right etc, etc.

I've only ever really made money from approx 20% of all the jobs, & something is always missing, especially if others have designed it, like the idiots who plan for base units so they breach the rad by 2in, or a 500 gap for a 600 extractor.

But whenever something dont go in right due to poor planning or bad design the customer always looks at you as if's it your fault & EXPECT you to rectify it.

I thought it was just me that got all the juggler's, but it's cheered me up slightly knowing it's not me, it's THEM.

That's enough moaning!