Starting problem 2

[robvtr]

Re my recent thread reagrding my firestorm not wanting to start and I thought the problem was cured by putting on a new battery, well it aint

Right

Went to start it on saturday, turning over but not firing up again (battery is fine as my mate checked it out for me) it's fully charged and now on an optimate

Test the plugs and there is a good spark

Decide to heat the plugs up to burnaway any crap around the core, throw them back in and it eventually fires up, run it up to tempreture and it running fine

Come to start it lunchtime today and again its turning over easy but wont fire off, it's "huffing and puffing, nearly there and backfiring but still wont go

I'm now getting a little pi**ed off with it

Answers on a post card please

Rob

[tony.mon]

Is the engine spinning at full speed, or a bit slow?
Thinking about starter cable where it joins the starter motor.

[warby221]

Had a look at your last thread
http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB2/viewtopic ... ht=#102474
Could do with a little more detail

Has the bike been layed up over winter? (Damp)
Has it been under a tarp in a shed in a garage? (Very damp, a bit damp or not damp at all)
What kind of mileage were you doing before it was layed up? (Petrol can go off if its over 3 months old)
What mileage is on the bike (low compression or other mechanical problem)

Any other symptoms before it gave up the ghost?
It all helps when trying to work out what’s happening

[satanzhand]

How is the fuel delivery?

I hate these intermittent problems.

If the plugs are new (check there not faulty) Trace the ignition further back to you do find a fault or not, then check the fuel delivery, check for crap in the jets, lines, tank.

P.S. before you do any of that check the air filter is ok and when ever you have the problem test the motor with the air filter off it helps eliminate one more thing.

[robvtr]

Had a look at your last thread
http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB2/viewtopic ... ht=#102474
Could do with a little more detail

Has the bike been layed up over winter? (Damp)
Has it been under a tarp in a shed in a garage? (Very damp, a bit damp or not damp at all)
What kind of mileage were you doing before it was layed up? (Petrol can go off if its over 3 months old)
What mileage is on the bike (low compression or other mechanical problem)

Any other symptoms before it gave up the ghost?
It all helps when trying to work out what’s happening

Right
The bike is kept in a garage that is cold and perhaps a little damp

I generally start it up every couple of weeks and run it up to temp on a paddock stand through the gears so it's not left for long

It's a 97 with 20k on the cloc

Last time I was out was xmas eve, it ran fine, although I travelled the last 15-20 mile with the fuel light on

Rob

[sirch345]

I would suggest trying a new set of plugs too, as it could be yours are faulty (as Satanzhand said), they may be showing a good spark out of the engine but could be braking down under compression,

Chris.

[robvtr]

I would suggest trying a new set of plugs too, as it could be yours are faulty (as Satanzhand said), they may be showing a good spark out of the engine but could be braking down under compression,

Chris.

I'm gonna bang some new plugs in

Btw, fuel is getting to the plugs

Rob

[warby221]

Ok with what you have said this is how I would go about sorting it the order I use is the cheapest first and eliminate one thing at a time its important to work methodically and eliminate things as you go work though the list the first couple of paragraphs cost nothing and take min’s to do and could save a lot of messing later

First thing is a visual check to make sure there’s no pipes been pinched or has come lose the plug leads are properly connected flick the kill switch a few times just in case it’s a bad connection in the switch along with the side stand switch (side stand switch can be bypassed if you have any suspicions its causing the problem) check the chokes are working ok. If all this is ok then move on to the next bit

Drain out the fuel from the carb’s there’s a drain screw at the bottom of each carb float chamber try and catch the fuel that comes out and see if there’s any water droplets in it or any other bits in it (fuel floats on top of water so shows up as round balls under the fuel) if there’s any water what so ever in what you have drained or excessive amounts of crap strip the carb’s and blow out the jets and change the fuel in the tank

If the above is ok then move down the list

You said the engine is trying to start but not quite making it this makes me think it’s a minor problem with the combustion not quite enough petrol, compressions a bit down or the spark just not up to it

Cheapest first remember and if the first doesn’t work move on to the next

First thing try to bump start the bike you’ll need to have it second or even third gear to stop the back wheel locking up (bump starting lets you turn over the engine faster than the starter can without drawing any current from the battery) this gives you the best chance of starting the bike if the starters drawing a bit to much power from the battery

Check the plug for fuel it should be damp with fuel
To wet its flooding (probably a sticking float or choke) to dry (starving of fuel try putting a couple of cc of petrol in though the plug hole

Change the plugs as has been said any one that’s had a two stroke bike will tell you “you can have a nice fat spark outside the engine but when it’s under compression it can fail”

After the above you’re probably looking at low compression caused by a mechanical problem and you’ll need to use a compression tester

[robvtr]

Right here goes

So far the bike will start up occasionally and when it does it runs perfectly

Eventually got it started yesterday, took it out, ran fine, nothing wrong with it at all, did about 10 miles, stopped and the bike started fine again, took it round my mates (who has had a storm), he took it out and said it was perfect

Went in the garage this morning and it wont fire up again

So far
1. have put in new plugs
2. have drained and changed the fuel
3. there is a new battery on
4. rained the carbs
5. cant see any loose pipes or breathers or anything

There is a good spark, fuel is getting to the carbs, when its going it runs perfect

Where do I go next

Rob

[warby221]

Right were getting some were good news
Sounds like an intermittent electrical fault
Now for the bad news these can be a real sod to sort out
All sorts of things can cause it from bad earths to broken wires inside the insulation and the bike needs to be playing up usually to be able to find it

What you need to do is reproduce the problem

Do one thing at a time so as to find the specific problem if you do a hole host of things at once you may get the bike running again but won’t know what the actual problem was so if it happens again your back to doing all of it to get it running again

First try going round the bike and have a look at all the earths unbolt/disconnect them and give them a good clean and have a look at if any are badly corroded “usually that coppery green colour The corrosion can travel back down the wire behind the insulation and cause a problem with high resistance ” try the bike

When the bike won’t start check the plugs for a good spark if you have a good spark put the plugs back in and try and start the bike if the bike starts think about what you have disturbed taking the plugs out you may have moved a wire and made a good connection some were

Check also the electrical connections for the ignition switch, CDI boxes, ignition pickups, kill switch, coils and the multi-connectors at the back of the tank and there’s one on the left hand side of the frame behind the frame-rail “think that’s them all”
Do them one at a time then try the bike

After that were in to broken bits, and bad switches or broken wires

I see you said you have a m8 with a storm?? This could be useful in switching parts before buying any if you need to

[firestorm_al]

When the bike doesn't fire does it sound like the battery is struggling?

Al.

[robvtr]

When the bike doesn't fire does it sound like the battery is struggling?

Al.

No mate

Rob

[bikerpiker]

When the bike doesn't fire does it sound like the battery is struggling?

Al.

No mate

Rob

All bikes are different, when i had my Daytona it would struggle to start , and the battery ..to me and my mate ,sounded fine ,and was turning engine over pretty fast...i joined "triumphrat" forum , described my symptoms ,and was told "put a new battery in it ,these bikes need a really strong battery,so i done that ,and low and behold ,1st press and away it went

Could your new battery be duff..or in a low state of charge

[sirch345]

I've only skimmed through this fairly quickly, so if already mentioned or done please ignore me.

Have you actually put a multi-meter across the battery terminals to see if the bike is charging properly

Chris.

[firestorm_al]

When I had starting problems on my storm I traced it to the Regulator/Rectifier which dammaged my recently changed battery. It can over charge the battery limiting its ability to hold a charge for very long. My TT600 did the same thing.