Chasing A Noise

[kenmoore]

Recently removed the engine cases to polish them as they were tatty, and fitted a 4 degree advancer.

Locked down the anti rattle gear to the primary drive so that the springs wouldn't fly out and all goes well until I refit clutch,right side cover.

Start bike, big rattle. Have pulled the bloody thing apart that many times,checked everyting,even replaced water pump bearing and seals, effing noise still there.

Any tips please, want to get bike back on road.

Noise seams to be from pump area. I have checked and quadruple checked everything but noise persists.

Sounds more like a clunk than a rattle. Bike runs OK just this bloody noise.

HELP!

[popkat]

not been in that side but as a guess could you have put a long bolt where a shorter bolt should be and it's catching on something rotating ?

[Wicky]

TonyM has a theory

http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic ... er#p234727

[benny hedges]

er.. how did you undo the bolt on the advance gear?
you didnt wedge the gears did you - between the clutch and primary gear

[AMCQ46]

Sounds like the anti rattle gear is not tensioned

[kenmoore]

Yes I did wedge the gears as per the workshop manual.

What is the tension on the anti rattle/ primary drive?

My manual tells me 88 ft lbs

HELP at wits end!!!

[tony.mon]

As you assemble the clutch back plate and basket onto the anti-rattle gears, you have to set the tension in the correct direction.
There's a simple solution.
Just remove the anti-rattle gear and springs and throw it away. It doesn't need it.*



*No, I'm not joking, it's just a bit of added weight, and removing it doesn't make any difference to the engine noise, performance, or anything else. It just removes a bit of weight and makes it easier to put together.
And will gain you 1/4-1/2 bhp.

Benny H didn't believe me at first either....

[kenmoore]

I didn't remove the clutch basket,all I did was lock the primary drive and anti rattle gear down and install the ignition advance rotor.

Are you for real that you can dispense with the anti rattle gear?

If I do this and it doesn't work then I will have to remove the clutch to reinstall the anti rattle gear.

I am a gambling man although I would like to know why someone would remove the anti rattle gear in the first place.

Was it because when they installed an ignition advance rotor that they had the rattle I now have? Or was it for some other reason?

Also what effect did it have.

[tony.mon]

It's designed to take up the slack in the straight-cut primary gears.
The two smaller primary gears intermesh, held together by the three springs, and it sort of clenches the larger gear's teeth between the two smaller ones and prevents it rattling. But it only rattles at very specific revs, and it's hard to hear anyway, if you have cans on.

But the fact that the gears tension against each other means that there is an extra friction produced, and removing the gear removes that small loss, hence a fractional BHP gain.

Frankly. less weight is good in my book, and a bit less engine friction and less weight is a better deal than a slightly quieter engine.
I don't do quiet anyway, so I'm not bothered at all by that.

If you ditch all the unnecessary parts your bike is lighter, therefore quicker, the suspension works better, grip[s the road more, you can go quicker.

Yes, I'm definitely for real re removing the extra gear.

I do it to my own engines, for what it's worth, although recently I tried putting the gear back last time I built the engine, purely to give a real-world test for the anti-grab clutch mods I have been playing with. I didn't want it to work on my bike but no-one elses, and so put back the extra parts I had removed before.
But next time I'm in the clutch it'll come out again. Didn't make any difference to the clutch grab.

If you haven't assembled the parts correctly, removing the extra (thin) gear and springs will solve your problem.

[kenmoore]

Thanks for that Tony.

I have removed the gear and the noise went, but alas whilst I had the side cover off I had a Honda dealer instal a new water pump bearing, seal and mechanical seal and now the water pump sounds like marbles in a tin.

Taking cover back to dealer to get them to check out their handy work.

Nothing rubs anywhere.

Talk about a pain.I've never experienced anything like this over 40 odd years of mucking around with bikes.

Fingers crossed!!!!!!

[tony.mon]

Sad that there's another issue, chances are that the impellor hasn't been inserted far enough and the blades are touching the housing.
When they pull it apart again the marks should show what's happening.

Where are you in the uk? Maybe one of us who know these engines can have a look for you.

[kenmoore]

I'm in oz mate .
It's doing my head in.

Must be something really stupid. I work long hours and only get a chance to look at it on Sundays.

If I ever get it right I will post the solution and maybe save some other poor sod the angst.

[griffo117]

I'm in oz mate .
It's doing my head in.

Must be something really stupid. I work long hours and only get a chance to look at it on Sundays.

If I ever get it right I will post the solution and maybe save some other poor sod the angst.

i hear u keep at it you will get there

[tony.mon]

There are two small chains, one for the waterpump driven from the smaller primary gear, where you've been working, and one for the oil pump, driven from the clutch shaft behind the basket. Just check they've been fitted properly and both line up ok.

Oh, and the other thing might be that if you've had the clutch basket off, it has to line up properly against its mounting pins on it's shaft bearing BEFORE you tighten up its mounting bolt. Otherwise you tighten without it being seated properly, against the heads of the locating pins, and it won't line up properly.

If you remove it there are little pins that locate into the back of the housing basket itself.
But if you haven't taken it off and neither has the dealer, it won't have slipped or dropped out of alignment by itself.

[kenmoore]

Thanks guys, will keep om keeping on till I get it right.

This Sunday is D Day.