running ruff!!!!!!! advice needed

[agentpineapple]

what a frustrating day, me and carlos were trying to get to the bottom of why my bike has decided to run as rough as arseholes, theres a knocking noise from the clutch area, which with the clutch pulled in doesn't sound that bad, but with the clutch out its terrible, and the bike runs like a dog, it doesn't want to pull away from standstill unless you give it loads of revs, and even then you have to slip the clutch, otherwise you get that ga donk ga donk noise as the bikes about to stall. we decided to pull off the two brothers system, as the problem arose around the same time we fitted it, its been replaced with standard headers with an aftermarket(not for road use) end cans and linkpipes. thanks to glsr for the links....
we also took the rear cam cover off to check the rear cct. as the other day it was weeping a little oil and we sealed it with clear sealant, we wanted to make sure it hadn't moved at all, that was spot on. we checked it had a good spark front and rear, which it did. we doubled checked all the hoses to make sure nothing had been connected up wrongly, they're all fine. we took the fairings off to make sure we hadn't pinched any wires, and we hadn't.
the mixture needs a little adjustment and the carbs need syncing. we did notice that the clutch fluid level had dropped tho, and the action of the clutch lever didn't seem that good, so we refilled with fluid and bleed the clutch. but it didn't really help. we are going to have another go at bleeding the clutch in the week.
i can't see why the clutch fluid would drop when the bike has only been ridden a mile at most, i can't see any fluid leeking either...?
also the front indis are flashing fast, there not led's, all the bulbs are fine, i swapped over a spare indi relay but that didn't make any difference. this bike is starting to piss me off now.
if anyones got any ideas(and no i will not take scrap it as a constructive idea, or any colour related nonsense)
feel free to chip in.....

[tony.mon]

Worst case is that it's the big bearing behind the clutch.... if so it's engine out and split the cases.

Sounds as though it's not going to be electrical or fuel related, so you're going to have to start pulling it apart to look for mechanical reasons.
Start with the clutch cover off and see what's going on.

Clutch fluid- if it's the slave cylinder seals it leaks into the front sprocket cover, and mixes with the chain lube, so it's often not noticeable.

[whitestorm pete]

are all your indicators bulbs marty? and what kind of relay are you useing?

[agentpineapple]

thanks for the reply tony, when the bike was apart, i totaly degreassed the engine, cleaned all the crap off around the front sprocket,and where the side stand mounts, which was fairly messy aswell. being its ultra clean, i would imagine i would see any leaking fluid?
if the engines has got to come out, i might aswell do the other bits aswell, i was hoping to avoid that tho. having got the bike to this point, its a right kick inthe balls..........
the other option would be to stick the low mileage engine in, giving me time to fix the other engine at my leisure......i really don't want to take that engine out again.........
we did think it was dodgey fuel because i'd just put a cans worth in, it was fresh from the texaco pump, but that wouldn't explain the knocking from the clutch area.

yes pete, all bulbs, no led's, i really can't understand it, unless the bulbs are different wattage, but i really can't see that.....

[tony.mon]

Actually, check the earth lead and battery connections......the two issues might just be related.
Also unplug the indy relay to see if engine problem goes away, and keep your fingers crossed.

[whitestorm pete]

the reason i ask is because if you have an electronic relay (for LEDs) it wont work on an all buld set up. you can do half and half so half LEDs half bulbs.

[agentpineapple]

the reason i ask is because if you have an electronic relay (for LEDs) it wont work on an all buld set up. you can do half and half so half LEDs half bulbs.

oem standard relay on the bike at the mo mate, i do have a spankers new led relay, but i'm keeping that for my other bike.....

[MacV2]

Is this the second bike Marty rather than the Spondon Spanker ?

'' if anyones got any ideas(and no i will not take scrap it as a constructive idea, or any colour related nonsense)
feel free to chip in..... ''

OK that leaves limited opptions...hmmm

What about twating it repeatedly with a big hammer & then setting fire to it ?

Hope that helps, notice no mention of scrapping or it's colour.

[tattoo]

when i fitted those punto repeat indi's into the fairing holes they flashed way too fast...when i checked the bulbs they were a differant wattage to the rears...

[VTRDark]

It's allright Mac you can calm down, I did explain to Marty earlier it's because it's Blue.

Tony is it the mainshaft bearing your referring too. I guess it's clutch investigating time then which is easy enough. But I am a bit concerned about splitting the casings. If that's the case then the whole bike may as well be broken for parts. I'm just thinking is there no other way of removing the mainshaft bearing without splitting the cases. How about breaking the thing apart so the balls fall out and using a puller to get it out. Then the centre of the puller can rest on the end of the mainshaft and the legs/prongs hooked around the back of the bearing casing to pull it out.

It was knocking so bad the other day I thought it was big ends but today with the clutch pulled in we noticed the sound went and I said it could be a bearing, not realising it's a casing apart job I think the way to go here is to remove the sprocket cover and investigate if there are any leaks from the seal. While that's off re-grease the clutch pushrod and re-bleed the clutch. Then see if the drivability problem persists. Sod the noise, as long as the bike runs. If the problem persists then it's clutch cover off for further investigation.

(:-})

[Miztaziggy]

It's not something daft like the front sprocket not being fitted properly is it? You said you had it all to bits and cleaned, well if the front sprocket wasn't on right you would get some pretty clunky noises when you set off.

Have you had the clutch apart at all? Basket out? Plates out etc?

If so, double check it was put back together properly. I had a problem with an R1 once when I put the clutch back together and forgot to refit the clip holding the inner 2 plates in place to make a little spring. It used to knock and rattle with the clutch out, but went away when you pulled the clutch in. It also made it very snatchy when setting off. It wouldn't want to start moving, and you had to rev it a lot, then all of a sudden it would snatch.

[VTRDark]

Defiantly not the sprocket as it's on the clutch side and is also at idle. Even when the bike is at idle and one gives it a rev the engine just seems a bit fluffy with no real oompgh behind it. Clutch has not been apart as it was just a straight engine swap. But I know what going to happen now, its going to be cover off and investigate further time. The clutch itself could even be knackered. It's defiantly a thrust bearing type noise but with a more heavy knocking sound rather than the usual bearing failure grinding sound. It's a pain in the butt really as we have got this far and all of a sudden this happens.

(:-})

[agentpineapple]

It's not something daft like the front sprocket not being fitted properly is it? You said you had it all to bits and cleaned, well if the front sprocket wasn't on right you would get some pretty clunky noises when you set off.

Have you had the clutch apart at all? Basket out? Plates out etc?

If so, double check it was put back together properly. I had a problem with an R1 once when I put the clutch back together and forgot to refit the clip holding the inner 2 plates in place to make a little spring. It used to knock and rattle with the clutch out, but went away when you pulled the clutch in. It also made it very snatchy when setting off. It wouldn't want to start moving, and you had to rev it a lot, then all of a sudden it would snatch.

the engines not been apart mate, it was running ok towards the end of last year when the bike was stripped cleaned/painted/greased/lubed/parts replaced where needed. then put back together, it was running ok all be it without a proper run, as i can only ride it around the block. as tony and carl said, it looks like the clutch needs a closer look.....

[tony.mon]

It's allright Mac you can calm down, I did explain to Marty earlier it's because it's Blue.

Tony is it the mainshaft bearing your referring too. I guess it's clutch investigating time then which is easy enough. But I am a bit concerned about splitting the casings. If that's the case then the whole bike may as well be broken for parts. I'm just thinking is there no other way of removing the mainshaft bearing without splitting the cases. How about breaking the thing apart so the balls fall out and using a puller to get it out. Then the centre of the puller can rest on the end of the mainshaft and the legs/prongs hooked around the back of the bearing casing to pull it out.


(:-})

Nope, that doesn't work, as the bearing has a locating ring or dowel (I forget which) that holds it into the cases at the correct place, so pulling it out sideways isn't going to work.

Believe me, I've tried to find a better way....

[VTRDark]

HONDA WHYYYYYYY.

So it not like a woodruff key then and more of a pin that goes through the side of the bearing casing into the engine casing, so requires the removal of the mainshaft. This is what your saying by the sounds of it. That is sh1t.

Oh well gonna have to investigate further then. If the bearing is in such a state that it's starting to collapse is there no way of botching it up temporarily. How about sliding a smaller outer diameter bearing with the same inner diameter inside the old one.

(:-})