Advancing the ignition via slotting the ignition pickup coil

Varastorm · Post by **Varastorm** » Thu Nov 13, 2014 3:56 pm

Right then, this is a serious case of thinking out loud.

Having read quite a bit about the pros & cons of ignition timing there seems to be a lot of positive comments advancing the ignition on the VTR engine. I looked into buying a 4° advancer firstly, but unless you find one second hand there is no chance. There is a 2° available but I want a 4° one & that’s that.

I then found this thread.

( http://drpmds.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Adva ... Timing.htm )

I have done a similar modification years ago, but it looks as if Honda has gone out of its way to avoid enthusiasts attempting this easy timing modification on the VTR.

I have not had the clutch housing off so I could be talking utter rubbish here but here goes. From various pictures I have seen, does the ignition pickup coil take its reading from the outer radius or the side of the rotor? The reason I ask is you are unable to set the rotor to coil gap so if you try to fiddle with it, or you have to measure it, you’re screwed.

But if the coil picks up the signal from the side of the rotor the spacing is already set. All that would be required to advance the timing would be to slot the pickup coil mounts & maybe file a little from the pillars holding the pickup coil to the clutch housing to allow the coil movement.

Any ideas, help & comments welcomed, Positive or negative.

Regards.

lloydie · Post by **lloydie** » Thu Nov 13, 2014 4:40 pm

CKennedy has a +4 advancer for sale

Varastorm · Post by **Varastorm** » Thu Nov 13, 2014 4:44 pm

lloydie wrote:CKennedy has a +4 advancer for sale

Hi Lloydie, How much? do you know? Mega thanks for that.

lloydie · Post by **lloydie** » Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:01 pm

Varastorm wrote:
lloydie wrote:CKennedy has a +4 advancer for sale
Hi Lloydie, How much? do you know? Mega thanks for that.

ill have him message you

Varastorm · Post by **Varastorm** » Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:03 pm

Thanks, really appreciate that.

Varastorm · Post by **Varastorm** » Thu Nov 13, 2014 8:12 pm

lloydie wrote:
Varastorm wrote:
lloydie wrote:CKennedy has a +4 advancer for sale
Hi Lloydie, How much? do you know? Mega thanks for that.
ill have him message you

Thanks again Lloydie, had a chat with him & sorted a deal out.

lloydie · Post by **lloydie** » Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:09 pm

Great hope it works out for you

Steve97 · Post by **Steve97** » Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:14 pm

Is that it then, ?

Varastorm · Post by **Varastorm** » Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:31 pm

Steve97 wrote:Is that it then, ?

Hi Steve97, No not by any means.

I have agreed to buy the advancer from CKennedy (Big thanks BTW), so when I do get it I will have to open up the clutch housing to fit it.

Whilst I am in there, I will work out where about the timing is read from (outer or side) take some photo's & pass on the information on here for others.

The ideal situation would be to get a knackered, damaged cover & cut out a window section so when it is lined up on the engine you can see where the coil reads from.

Like I mention earlier I have no idea how it picks up the pulse from the rotor, if from the side you might have a chance. But it its from the tip then it might very well be the end of this thread.

Stephan · Post by **Stephan** » Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:52 am

Ignitech programmable CDI unit can do what you need, but without tuning on dyno it is probably useless.

VTRDark · Post by **VTRDark** » Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:22 am

Link for Ignitech
http://www.ignitech.cz/en/vyrobky/tci/tci.htm

Timing light marks you pick up off the flywheel. The only issue with slotting is that one would have to keep removing and replacing the clutch cover to reposition the pickup. It would be nice if it could be adjusted as easier as the old distributors where on cars.

IIRC It looks like, it's the side of the rotor where it picks the signal up from, but it's hard to tell as the pick up is mounted on the inside of the clutch cover, therefore one can't actually see it place all lined up.

Some piccies for you in the following:
http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 43#p334848

(:-})

Varastorm · Post by **Varastorm** » Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:07 pm

cybercarl wrote:Link for Ignitech
http://www.ignitech.cz/en/vyrobky/tci/tci.htm

Timing light marks you pick up off the flywheel. The only issue with slotting is that one would have to keep removing and replacing the clutch cover to reposition the pickup. It would be nice if it could be adjusted as easier as the old distributors where on cars.

IIRC It looks like, it's the side of the rotor where it picks the signal up from, but it's hard to tell as the pick up is mounted on the inside of the clutch cover, therefore one can't actually see it place all lined up.

Some piccies for you in the following:
http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 43#p334848

(:-})

Hi Carl,

I had a good read of your ignition advance & retard thread & that got me thinking about the slotting mod, excellent read BTW.

Thinking out loud again, If you were to measure from say a bolt hole in the clutch casing to the pulse coil pickup, then use that measurement from the same hole on the engine casing it should give an idea where on the rotor it gets its signal.

There must be a difference of around 5mm if it is one or the other, or try & get a bearing by using a straight edge across the gasket faces to determine how much the pickup protrudes into the engine casing.

I should hopefully have an advancer soon, but it would be interesting to see if it would work though.

8541Hawk · Post by **8541Hawk** » Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:24 pm

If it helps the pick up that reads the ignition rotor is mounted to the cover, if that is the info you are looking for.

Also, as I have stated before the +4 does have some advantages (ran one for years) but also some draw backs (like all mods)
A bit more punch on the bottom but not as happy in the higher RPMs.
Also, with my bike, it was happiest with the mid grade fuel where the ignition boxes require premium.

I say you lose a bit on the top because what you really want (especially if you have bumped up the compression) is to start retarding the timing when the RPMs rise.

I say this as it is what the HRC box I run does and it is the best ignition set up I have run on this bike.

Varastorm · Post by **Varastorm** » Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:30 pm

8541Hawk wrote:If it helps the pick up that reads the ignition rotor is mounted to the cover, if that is the info you are looking for.

Also, as I have stated before the +4 does have some advantages (ran one for years) but also some draw backs (like all mods)
A bit more punch on the bottom but not as happy in the higher RPMs.
Also, with my bike, it was happiest with the mid grade fuel where the ignition boxes require premium.

I say you lose a bit on the top because what you really want (especially if you have bumped up the compression) is to start retarding the timing when the RPMs rise.

I say this as it is what the HRC box I run does and it is the best ignition set up I have run on this bike.

Hi 8541Hawk,

Firstly, I would like to thank you for the old thread about setting up the carbs you wrote on the SuperHawk forum. Superb BTW.

Right then, the problem is that finding if the pulse coil is taking its reading from the edge or the side of the rotor wheel.

The idea being if the pulse coil is slotted & takes its reading from the side of the rotor, its a simple case of working out what slot is required for a 4° advance & tighten the bolts into the existing mounting posts, job done.

But if the pulse coil is taking its reading from the outer edge, it is impossible to set the slotted pulse coil pickup to rotor gap, because like you mentioned the pulse coil is mounted on the clutch housing.

Varastorm · Post by **Varastorm** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:29 am

Hi,

Just seen this pick on eBay, it looks as if the pulse coil takes the reading from the outer radius. From the picture it looks as if the bike it was fitted to has hit the clutch casing & driven it into the ignition rotor, marking the coil in the process.

Also you can see the slight bevelling of the pickup, indicating where the rotor sweeps past the ignitor tip.

I would imagine that if the coil mounting was tampered with (slotted) it would be impossible to gap the coil to rotor distance accurately.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-VTR-100 ... 33983f6377

Sorry, but I can't seem to post the pick on its own.

VTR1000.ORG