Question regarding fitting of Manual cct's.

[leevtr]

Went into the garage today and fitted manuals, no problems at all.

However, before removing the auto on the rear cylinder, I took notice of the amount of play in the chain between the cogs/sprockets, and it was very little, no where near the 7-10mm we work to when setting the manuals up.

Needless to say I had no issues otherwise this thread would be completely different, but it did make me turn the engine over by hand through one full revolution and check I had the marks set up correctly before removing the originals. I therefore conclude that if I used the locking key to fix the position of the auto before removal,( Which I didn't ) then measured the length of the auto and transferred it to the manual before installation, the chain would not have the recommended play in it, 7-10mm. So, either I'm a numpty who is missing something glaringly obvious, or 7-10mm is not necessary, or my camchain is now looser than it was.

[VTRDark]

While on the compression stroke the Honda auto's have 5mm play. Manual's should be between 5 and 7mm, I don't know where you getting 10 from. I would usually say to people to aim for 7 as it's better for the engine components if a tad loose than too tight. The locking key is only for winding the tensioner in when installing a new Honda tensioner. If you where to buy Brand new Honda auto tensioner you would find the key in the tensioner wound in and ready to fit. Or in the case of someone doing a stopper mod the key is used to set the clearance for putting a stopper (8mm bar) in place.

(:-})

[leevtr]

While on the compression stroke the Honda auto's have 5mm play. Manual's should be between 5 and 7mm, I don't know where you getting 10 from. I would usually say to people to aim for 7 as it's better for the engine components if a tad loose than too tight. The locking key is only for winding the tensioner in when installing a new Honda tensioner. If you where to buy Brand new Honda auto tensioner you would find the key in the tensioner wound in and ready to fit. Or in the case of someone doing a stopper mod the key is used to set the clearance for putting a stopper (8mm bar) in place.

(:-})

No I cant remember where I got 7-10 from either, but the first time I printed off sirchs guide so thats where I thought it came from. Well I got the 7 right anyway !!

Anyway I'm sure I read somewhere the autos could be locked off and that measurement transferred to a manual, save all the touchy feely sh1t. But my chain before the autos were removed was pretty tight, sure it could be MADE to move, but not what I would call play, and different to the recommended slack for the manuals.

No big deal, as I've ridden the bike and its fine, same as the last manuals I fitted to the red one.

[VTRDark]

but the first time I printed off sirchs guide so that's where I thought it came from

It would not have been that as there is no mention of manual tensioners or setting the tension in his guide. It's strictly aimed towards the stopper mod.

This may be where you got some of the info.
http://www.clems-garage.com/CCT/VTR1000 ... ctions.htm
A bit cheeky using the Krieger logo and same style (including navigation) as the Krieger site. This site is nothing to do with Krieger as far as I know and is actually Clems Garage WHO!!!! you ask..... just some back street garage in Philadelphia or is it a web designer a bad one at that.

Clem's Garage
http://www.clems-garage.com/
Note the URL is the same as above. Also note that some of the navigation links have impersonated the Krieger site if you look at the URL it is still under
http://www.clems-garage.com
and not the proper official Krieger site which is
http://www.kriegercamchaintensioners.com/

(:-})

[Wicky]

Its a domain forwarding as Mark Krieger's site is or was at one time hosted at clems-garage.com.

[VTRDark]

Argh, thank wicky that explains it then.

(:-})

[8541Hawk]

What not running the stock auto CCTs??

Though I am the odd one with 95K miles all with the stock CCTs (yes they have been changed out at the proper service intervals) without a single issue.....

[leevtr]

What not running the stock auto CCTs??

Though I am the odd one with 95K miles all with the stock CCTs (yes they have been changed out at the proper service intervals) without a single issue.....

Well my first Storm ran for 4 years on the original auto's without exploding, so I must admit if I hadn't read all the horror stories here I would still be on them same as you.
Out of interest, what do you mean by ' proper service intervals '. I didn't know there was one for the CCT's .

[8541Hawk]

What not running the stock auto CCTs??

Though I am the odd one with 95K miles all with the stock CCTs (yes they have been changed out at the proper service intervals) without a single issue.....

Well my first Storm ran for 4 years on the original auto's without exploding, so I must admit if I hadn't read all the horror stories here I would still me on them same as you.
Out of interest, what do you mean by ' proper service intervals '. I didn't know there was one for the CCT's .

Every second valve adjustment or 32K miles.

Even then you can destroy the stock units by doing a couple of things. The worst is letting the bike sit and idle on the side stand.
So while I understand many people have issues with them, I have followed the "cautions" give to me by the Moriwaki techs and have never had a problem...... and they did run the auto CCTs on their race bikes.

[leevtr]

Well, its a bit late now, but I've never let my bikes tick over on the side stand, only if on an Abba or paddock stand. Always had a thing in my head about them being upright when ticking over, although I don't know where that came from as they lean when ridden, and it was nothing to do with cct's either. Bit of a coincidence, but I wonder if thats why I had no issues.

Do you know why it affects the cct's. if it were an oil pick up issue i would have thought it would affect the whole engine.

[8541Hawk]

Well, its a bit late now, but I've never let my bikes tick over on the side stand, only if on an Abba or paddock stand. Always had a thing in my head about them being upright when ticking over, although I don't know where that came from as they lean when ridden, and it was nothing to do with cct's either. Bit of a coincidence, but I wonder if thats why I had no issues.

Do you know why it affects the cct's. if it were an oil pick up issue i would have thought it would affect the whole engine.

I was never really given an answer to why so I can only guess. I would assume....which I actually hate to do, that it is due to the low oil pressure at idle and the CCT is just "splash" feed oil from the cam chain.
So the angle and low pressure combine to cause little to no oil getting to the CCT in that orientation. Which seems to affect the front CCT as it appears to get less oil than the rear in all cases.

Leaning the bike doesn't have the same effect as the revs are up giving higher oil pressure and the lean angle isn't held for long periods of time. Though like I said this is just conjecture on my part.
All I can say is I have racked up many miles of trouble free service by following the rules I was told and also the only bike I have personally seen have a CCT failure happened while the bike was "warming up" on the side stand...even though I had told them it was not a good idea.

Though with that I will more than likely go to manuals on the next change as I am tired of swapping them out though for many riders 32K miles are more than they will ever put on there bike.

[leevtr]

Interesting.

[VTRDark]

I think you have been very lucky Mike, and the sidestand IIRC has also been mentioned by Roger along with not allowing high engine braking. But don't forget a Mori Race bike back in it's day most likely would have had a complete engine rebuild after pretty much every race or every other race. It's a totally different animal and don't even have a sidestand, lives on paddock stands. when not out on track, Higher compression, higher oil pressure etc etc.

I'm sorry but the evidence is out there, there are loads of bikes that have had failures way under the service limit. Now I'm not against the use of Honda tensioners, in fact I would probably go that route myself if I bought another VTR, but would say to anyone that is using them to at least do a stopper mod on them as a safety precaution. At least then if/when it fails there is no catastrophes with engine internals. Unfortunately this is the nature of the beast with a V Twin.

(:-})

[Jamoi]

I'm intrigued Carl, why would you go back to auto's w/stopper mod rather than keep your manuals?

Is it due to you covering lots of miles and having to adjust them regularly?

Curious, just because changing to manuals is a job on my winter list.

[agentpineapple]

I'm intrigued Carl, why would you go back to auto's w/stopper mod rather than keep your manuals?

Is it due to you covering lots of miles and having to adjust them regularly?

Curious, just because changing to manuals is a job on my winter list.

if carl was to buy another storm that has auto's fitted, its cheaper to do the stopper mod than buy new manual cct's..........